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Author Topic: Clarity and it's impact on a Diamond  (Read 510 times)
Diamondsbylauren
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« on: July 23, 2007, 10:34:38 PM »

HI Everyone!
Most readers and participants of this forum have probably seen the chart that shows the clarity scale.
IF VVS1-2 VS1-2 SI1-2 I1-2 P1-2
This all makes it seem very neat and tidy. A VVS1 is better than a VVS2. Period.
Based on that assumption, an I1 is a very very bad diamond.

In fact, it's these very assumptions that drive diamond prices to a large degree.
As far as the market is concerned, all things being equal, a VVS1 is more expensive and a VVS2 by a small percentage. The VS1 is slightly less again- and so on, down the clarity scale.

I'm quite sure that many consumers with a fair amount of diamond knowledge feel that a VS1 is better than an SI1.

Of course all things are generally NOT equal when grading diamonds.

Most agree the Cut of a diamond has a HUGE impact on it's desirability. We're not even going to touch on that here.
Let's speak strictly about clarity.

To show what I'm talking about, the diamond below was graded I1 by GIA


Below I've pointed out the two areas that constitute the I1 grading of this diamond.


There are two specific areas of imperfection.
The area I'm calling the "Garden" is easily visible in my photos. Not so much in person- but when the diamond was loose you could pick it out if you tilted exactly the right way.
Still, if I was grading the diamond for clarity- and it did not have the gletz, I'd say it was no worse than SI1.


Here's another aspect of clarity grading which is often misunderstood. A diamond's clarity is graded ( by GIA) based on the presence of imperfection- not on it's visibility
I've seen a 3 carat plus round diamond which was graded by GIA as a VS2- yet the imperfection was pretty easy to see without a loupe! It was simply a matter of luck and positioning. There was a tiny black spot but it was oriented and positioned so it sat right above a large facet which highlighted it.


Going back to the Emerald Cut diamond above:

Sure, it's an emerald cut, which might show imperfection more easily than a round- but I still feel the garden is a lot less noticeable than a "hard" imperfection- such as the "White Gletz"


To get the best use of this particular diamond, we put it in a bezel.

Now, I have a hard time seeing either of the imperfections without the loupe.


The point: A diamond's clarity can be an issue. Sometimes an I1 has a single concentrated spot- right in an area so that it becomes the only thing you see.
But clarity, in itself- is not a valid method of comparison. Not all VS2's are better than Si2's
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2007, 03:02:20 PM »

Hi all- here's a question asked on a different thread which I've brought over to this conversation.

Quote
Hi eveybody!

I have an round I1 and I think my diamond is beautiful.

I don't know if I want to keep it cause I dream to have an old european cut. The truth is sell an I1 diamond is extremly difficult.

People know the 4c because the majority of the salesmen present these criteria on their websites but they do not know beautiful I1 exist. When I offered my diamond to sell it, nobody wanted to buy it on Ebay or in many classified adds websites. I am certain that it is because it's an I1.

My pics was superb...
My setting is in very good condition 14 k white gold 6 prongs...
My diamond is .94 ct, H color and I1 clarity with a very good cut...
I asked 2700$ for it...

Price too high? I don't think!

Why nobody want my diamond? I believe sincerely that it is I1 clarity which makes fear! Speak to us about the value of a I1 diamond at the time to sell it without passing through a jeweller who, obviously, will hurry to say to us that it is unfortunately an I1 and that its value is not quite high.

I am frustrated because I cannot sell my diamond. Would I remake the same error at the time of my next purchase? No no...

Your opinion please.


This post brings up some good points.
1) Remember that it's far more advantageous for consumers to purchase from an established seller. That means if Joe Shmoe has a diamond on Criag's list which is virtually idential to one being sold by a well established seller, the diamond being sold by the seler wityh a good reputation is actually worth more than one offered by a consumer.
This means that a diamond selling at the store for $1500 can be worth only $750 ( or less) when it's offered by a private seller. This means that to get $2700 for your I1, establiushed sellers would need to be at levels much higher.

Here's an I1 we're offering for $2395.
This particular diamond was graded I1 by GIA.
If yours was graded by GIA the price of $2700 would make it difficult for you to sell.
If there's no GIA report you'd really need to find a buyer that was ignorant of the retail possibilities.

PS- re-selling an old european cut ain't goin to be any easier for you.......

In fact, trying to buy diamonds, then re-sell them yourself is very difficult.
Makes buying from a seller with a good trade up policy even more important.

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David
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Diamondluvr
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2007, 03:04:11 PM »

Reputation is everything!

I looooove the EC ring, by the way Smiley
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stci
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2007, 08:54:46 PM »

Quote
Here's an I1 we're offering for $2395.

But David, It's an emerald, J color and strong blue fluorescence! Perhaps it's the same I don't know... mine is a round, H color and fluorescence none.

In fact, my problem  is when I look at the prices for diamonds in Quebec Canada, I know the price that I request is reasonable but to offer it on Internet, it is probably too high.


I will have to try to sell it to people from our premises, I will perhaps obtain a better price from them. I do not know any more... David... I'm lost in the diamond world. It is so complex.  Cry

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snowflake21105
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2007, 10:27:17 PM »

Sylvie,

You need to remember that you're not a diamond dealer, people will be very hesitant to buy something from you, no matter if you asked only $100 USD for it, they don't want to lose money if they don't get what they paid for. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but people who don't know you are going to be careful buying a diamond from you. I hate to ask - and if you don't want to answer my question - but how much did you spend on the diamond?
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2007, 12:53:15 AM »

Hi Stci,
A 1.00 H/I1 round might be worth a bit more than a 1.00 Emerald Cut H/I1.
A .94ct Round H/I1 is likely worth about the same or less than a 1.00 J/I1 Emerald Cut.
The only time Strong Blue fluorescence might affect the price of a J color is the rare cases where the diamond is dull.
Otherwise it's neutral in terms of price- or could even make a J color more saleable ( and valuable)

Maybe you know someone who wants to buy your diamond......
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Snooper
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2007, 12:54:43 AM »

Not to steer away from the topic, but aren't rounds in general more than fancy shapes? It's one of the reason why I didn't consider a round for my ER.  Wanted more for my buck.
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Geena1
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2007, 02:03:23 AM »

I think you're right about that, Snooper.
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stci
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2007, 06:55:13 PM »

Thank you David and Snowflake. I understand people hesitate to buy from me cause I'm not a diamond dealer and the asking price was too high.

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snowflake21105
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2007, 08:11:01 PM »

It is a very beautiful diamond, but maybe you would have better luck putting it in a local newspaper? I would try to sell it locally first! Also, remember when you "re-sell" a diamond, you can only get about 50% of what you paid for it, unless you can find someone that can totally trust you on what they're getting. If you don't have a GIA, then you might have some trouble finding a buyer, no matter what price you ask for.
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stci
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2007, 08:40:20 PM »

I think that my dream to buy an OEC is over...

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diamondjunkie
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2007, 08:46:48 PM »

I wouldn't say 'over' - maybe 'postponed' until you can find a buyer and save up any extra you may need.  Don't give up!
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IhaveaDiamondproblem
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2007, 08:47:51 PM »

I think that my dream to buy an OEC is over...



Oh Stci, cheer up!  I agree with Snowflake - if I were you I'd try to sell it locally and/or lower your selling price.  If you really want to get a different diamond, then get what you can for yours, and then save for the new one.  THE DREAM IS NEVER OVER!!! Grin
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snowflake21105
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2007, 08:54:45 PM »

Oh, stci! I didn't mean you can't sell your diamond for that price! To tell the truth, if I had the money, I would try to buy your diamond! I'm still waiting, and it looks like my wait just got longer, too, since our money is in a shortage right now.... so my diamond dreams are on hold too!

Hey- I wonder?       Can you take a really close up picture of your diamond for us?
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Pip
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2007, 09:06:33 PM »

Ppl will only pay what they are willing and think its worth.
This notion of a diamond as an 'investment' is flawed IMO.
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evilmailjeep
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« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2007, 09:29:51 PM »

Have you considered a trade, or trade plus cash?
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2007, 10:14:19 PM »

This notion of a diamond as an 'investment' is flawed IMO.
A good point Pip..... which brings us back on point of the subject of the thread, however indirectly.


We don't advocate the buying of diamonds as "Financial Instruments". Nor do we advise people to borrow money to buy a diamond.

Yet, if a person has achieved the ability to command the type of money it takes to buy a diamond, it does not depreciate in the same manner as other things one buys.
The initial hit is always a big one.
It's the same with buying a new car. The moment you drive it off the lot and it loses a lot of value- mostly because now you're the seller.

The main reason is that established dealers offer buyers far more advantages. Therefore,  if a private individual, and a dealer are offering identical items, the dealer will normally command a higher price.

Once you've owned the thing for a while, the same condition still exists as far as dealers getting higher prices.
But here's where some important differences between diamonds, and other things you buy come in.
Going back to the car comparison-

These are really rough numbers ( I'm going by recollection) but who knows, maybe they are not that far off....
IN the case of cars, I'd say current prices are about 2-3 times the cost they were in 1987.
I seem to remember buying a Pontiac 6000 for about $13K in 1987.
To my recollection, that's about right for a lot of diamonds as well.
There are things that have gone up a lot more- including very large important diamonds, and fancy colored diamonds.

But in general- for the most commonly sold diamonds, I'd say dealers of diamonds today are paying 2-3 times more than they were in 1987

.......imagine if your 1987 car was identical in every way to the newest model.

It's quite conceivable most cars bought in 1987 are worthless today.
Not so if we're talking about any well cut diamond of a decent size from 1987.

What I'm saying is- hold a diamond over time and it will not depreciate like many other things we buy.

Now- to the point of the thread....
Another huge aspect in this is your purchase price.
A person who spends $10,000 on their diamond has that to recover in terms of financial investment.
Thank goodness stci didn't spend $5000 on a diamond she wanted to sell today.....
The great thing about buying a well cut I1 is that it's far easier for many people to achieve.

I would truly hope stci does one of two things
1) Decide she enjoys her current diamond-then it will be providing her with joy.
2) Decide she really wants something else, and bite the bullet. Lower the price- sell the diamond and move on.

stci- please don't take offense- I want you to really love your diamond! or get the one you do love.
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stci
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« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2007, 10:59:25 PM »

You are so nice... Thank you for all that you do for me.

All that I want it is a diamond with same dimensions as mine which would show me beautiful colors. Mine show me a lot of sparkle but always white.

I do not know if another shape could give me the colors which I wish. I want an OEC cause I know these cut can provide many colors but if you can advise me I would be very happy.

I appreciate your assistance and I can say that I feel better with you...



Snowflake-> I have this pic, is this what you want?




* diamant1.jpg (38.17 KB, 550x480 - viewed 12 times.)
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snowflake21105
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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2007, 01:45:41 PM »

I'm sorry I pulled this thread so off track, David.

I thought it might be a good opportunity to help stci understand more about her diamond and the diamond market, but I'll stick to pm's from now on! I've pulled a few threads off track, I swear I'll be an  angel from now on!
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2007, 02:05:46 PM »

Snowflake- you are so very welcome to pull any thread in any direction.
If we need to split the thread so that it says on a subject, we can always do that.
Please feel free to post anything you want- we'll let you know if we want to move it.


IN the case of this thread, I think it's been interesting for everyone!
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David
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