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Author Topic: Sister's estate sale finds, what are they?  (Read 2551 times)
Lyta
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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2010, 02:44:21 AM »

1) are you sure they can't synthesize stones with imperfection? I had the impression it's possible

It is possible but perhaps more uncommon.
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clgwli
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2010, 09:12:32 AM »

I heard somewhere that they were doing some created stones to have inclusions and color to make them more "realistic"  I don't remember where I read it but I know they were doing it for diamond types.

And in some cases like the moissanite, the way they create the stones usually makes for distinct inclusions.  They have these white inclusions that look like they grow straight downwards from the girdle.  I hope that makes sense.  I am sure I can find a picture if you all want.

So even created stones risk having inclusions under normal conditions.

I have no idea what they are doing for gemstones though with that.  I imagine they could do it to make it more difficult to distinguish as well.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2010, 10:25:42 AM »

Cool stuff...
I'm learning here too OMC. Your knowledge on this type of stuff is impressive- mine is mainly practical....I had a few impressions- maybe incorrect....
1) are you sure they can't synthesize stones with imperfection? I had the impression it's possible
It is indeed possible, but it is often the type (as well as the quantity) of inclusions that gives the game away, particularly on emeralds. Rubies can be created with very convincing "natural" inclusions, even though there are generally tell-tale signs even then.

The paradox is that creating a perfect stone is a lot cheaper than making an included one, and in general people buy synthetics because of cost concerns, so there are more perfectly clear synthetics available than "included" ones.

Quote
2) I have seen some purportedly natural African Emeralds which are relatively clear- compared to Columbian Emeralds - which are heavily included... I suppose we should have GIA's done if it comes up again.....
Zambian/Central African emeralds are generally much cleaner (and to my eyes splendidly coloured), but are usually quite small (over 1 ct is rare). Re-reading my original post, I should have probably said "Any totally eye-clean large emerald is suspicious just because it is eye clean."
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2010, 10:34:01 AM »

[snip]
A friend of mine, a gem cutter who used to teach at GIA, says that he purposely leaves discreet inclusions, or "finger prints" in his stones, even when he could cut them to be flawless (of course, most would be smaller too) so that there will never be a question regarding the authenticity of his gems. Also, there are some gem species/materials that he will not touch these days because the treated stones and fakes are so difficult to distinguish (when he is on the fly and purchasing).

I've really learned to appreciate the "finger prints" of natural gems.
I think a case in point is green diamonds (pure green, from irradiation). Sometimes GIA cannot find anything decisive one way or the other, and then they issue a "non proven" verdict, calling it "undetermined color origin". (Jen - I hope you appreciate the simile)

really interesting everyone, thank you!  
i was at an estate sale the other day and the nicest piece of jewelry there was a 2.43 ct round ruby in a really ugly 14k yellow gold ring with .6ctw round side diamonds offset from each other.  they had an appraisal from a local jewelry store from 1979 that called it a "natural ruby" and appraised it for $2,600 back then.  they were asking $650 for the ring and i was tempted, because the ruby was a really pretty deep red, but i didn't know anything about judging what a good ruby is.  i've decided not to regret not getting it, but i do remember seeing a lot of very pink rubies in jewelry stores and not being impressed.  this was pigeon blood red.
Well, you know, depending on how heavy the ring is, it may not be a bad purchase regardless of what the main stone is. You'll get back a few hundreds from scrapping the metal, and if the side diamonds are anything to look at, you have paid for the ring (as long as you have a use for them; no point in trying to sell them!). I would not trust a local jeweller to tell a recent synthetic from a natural ruby, but the synthesis methods have progressed a lot since the 1980s. The issue is that traditional Verneuil (flame growth) rubies are easy to spot, and that is what people look for, but there are lots of other methods beyond Verneuil now in use - some from the 1960s - and these are much tougher to detect. Still, if it's heavy and you like the centre stone, I'd be very tempted.
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Trinkette
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« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2010, 12:21:49 PM »

There are all sorts of new and "mysterious" treatments going on. Some stones are heated (to just before the melting point) until the crystal lattice structure actually changes, others (which would shatter before reaching anything close to the melting point) are heated until cracks and fissures open up between the crystal latticework, allowing pathways within the stones for colorants. Recently, there has been evidence of several gem types marketed from Bankok being marketed without disclosure of a very new type of treatment, kind of like the second one I described.
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SaoriViola
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« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2010, 02:12:39 PM »

oh yeah, and that estate sale "natural" ruby had a fairly big chip on the girdle, so it would have to get recut.  i decided not to regret it though OMC, so don't make me regret not getting it!  Smiley
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Mikla
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« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2010, 02:58:45 PM »

You're right, SV.  That would have been too much risk to take.  No regrets!   Grin
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2010, 06:33:26 PM »

The only chips I like are potato chips... you did well not to take it
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