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Author Topic: You know I respect GIA, but they're missing the boat here- big time  (Read 1396 times)
Diamondsbylauren
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« on: July 19, 2011, 07:56:49 PM »
Hi everyone!
I've used the term "Double Decker Cushion" on a number of occasions.
There's two main designs to the DBL branded stones.
One is a variation of the Old Mine Brilliant, optimized for optimization of color- to my knowledge this is the first time such an effort has been made- and of course, by a master, Yoram F.

The second, is the Double Decker.
I see this as a modern interpretation of a classic design.

The Tiffany Yellow


This photo is (hopefully) public domain- it appears on many websites with no acknowledgement.

Here's the facet pattern from Max Bauer's 1904 book Precious Stones


Now look at R4069- the largest stone we've cut to date.


There's a lot of similarities.
I took the plot above, and did some photo-shopping to reflect the facet pattern on our DBL Double Decker.
One big difference is depth. The Tiffany Yellow was 81.5% depth- ours is 64.9%
Next, the larger facets on the pavilion of the DBL stone. This is a lovely feature- it gives the stone an almost step cut feel- while still having large areas of sparkle.



In the profile view of the DBL stone- on the left, you can see the "double decker" effect on both the crown, as well as the pavilion- on both the modern, and historic designs. It's the parralel line to the girdle on both crown and pavilion


How does GIA come into this discussion?
Look at the plot they used on the report for this diamond.... violent1



Come on guys......
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David
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clgwli
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 08:02:51 PM »
First of all I absolutely adore these "double decker cushions"  They really rock IMO!  I hope you make many more and in some smaller sizes too if possible so some day I could own one.  I thought I always wanted a Daussi, but these surpass love levels IMO.

I really think they missed the mark on this one too.  Loads of respect for them still though.  I imagine it is easier for them to do this than really finding one closer?  I have no idea why else.  Is there a reason why they pick one type of another?
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 08:28:16 PM »
It looks likes they were using the "one- size fits all" approach... Roll Eyes
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2011, 02:05:30 AM »
They seem to be missing the double-decker bus from their pattern library allright. Probably not enough volume of stones with a two-tier brilliant cut to bother creating one.

On this report, it is impossible to use the facet pattern as a clue to where the inclusions are and as a key to ID. So what's the point in including the diagram at all?

But then again, they seem to be missing the bus in more than one respect with fancy cuts and coloured diamonds in general.

For example: in GIA reports there is a profile view of the diamond. Why not make it proportional to the actual diamond? Creating a spreadhseet to graph the correct, proportional wireframe  for a 3-step crown and 4-step pavilion took me about 20 minutes in Excel. They do measure the necessary proportions, after all. Why not provide information on crown and pavilion angles? They do it for D-Z diamonds after all. So why not for fancy shapes (which are no longer all that uncommon) and coloured diamonds?

And if we want to go one step further, since they perform a Sarin (or thereabouts) scan of the diamond anyway, why not use the geometric info to plot the facet plan automatically and proportionally from that? Again, it doesn't take a genius or a lot of time to write a program to do it, and all the necessary data is already in digital format.

Bah, humbug!

David - did you call GIA to ask for an explanation?
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DiamondsAreForever
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2011, 04:57:20 AM »
Wow, they really missed the boat on this one:  generic cushion pattern and definitely not the accurate side view.  And, as OMC said, you can't use the facet patterns on their plot to ID inclusions.  Was it intern day?
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dovesgate
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2011, 05:11:15 AM »
Can the report be challenged in any way? I mean, just looking at the diamond shows even the most uneducated that it's not the same one in the diagram - since they have messed up, will they take it back and fix their report?

 I imagine that report might make potential buyers a bit wary of purchasing it with a mismatched GIA.
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DiaGem
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 02:14:34 PM »
Quote from: Diamondsbylauren on July 19, 2011, 07:56:49 PM
Hi everyone!
I've used the term "Double Decker Cushion" on a number of occasions.
There's two main designs to the DBL branded stones.
One is a variation of the Old Mine Brilliant, optimized for optimization of color- to my knowledge this is the first time such an effort has been made- and of course, by a master, Yoram F.

The second, is the Double Decker.
I see this as a modern interpretation of a classic design.

The Tiffany Yellow


This photo is (hopefully) public domain- it appears on many websites with no acknowledgement.

Here's the facet pattern from Max Bauer's 1904 book Precious Stones


Now look at R4069- the largest stone we've cut to date.


There's a lot of similarities.
I took the plot above, and did some photo-shopping to reflect the facet pattern on our DBL Double Decker.
One big difference is depth. The Tiffany Yellow was 81.5% depth- ours is 64.9%
Next, the larger facets on the pavilion of the DBL stone. This is a lovely feature- it gives the stone an almost step cut feel- while still having large areas of sparkle.



In the profile view of the DBL stone- on the left, you can see the "double decker" effect on both the crown, as well as the pavilion- on both the modern, and historic designs. It's the parralel line to the girdle on both crown and pavilion


How does GIA come into this discussion?
Look at the plot they used on the report for this diamond.... violent1



Come on guys......








Hi David, did you request GIA to add the specific plot for this facet design?
I forwarded you in the past the code number for this plot. I had GIA add that specific plot to their bank of plots..., I also believe we got the correct plots on some of the former submitted.

Anyways, nice comparisons with the Tiffany Yellow.
The main difference is the tiny star facets on the culet..., George Kunz rightfully thought it would add life on a 128 carat Diamond 

Looks good my friend.

ETA: please don't ID me as a master....
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Yoram F
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 02:36:57 PM »
Ummm, GIA definitely messed-up this one... especially if they have a more appropriate plot in-hand. And, I agree, even if they did not have the correct plot set-up (which we now know they DO have), why not use the unique scan info from an individual diamond to create an accurate rendering? Seems like an obvious solution, given the technology available to GIA.

A conversation with someone of relative influence at GIA is in order; these are lovely stones, and certainly, since there WILL be more of them submitted for reports, GIA should know what to do with them...
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2011, 02:59:40 PM »
Quote from: DiaGem on July 20, 2011, 02:14:34 PM
ETA: please don't ID me as a master....

Welcome to CDI - and don't be too modest; those are very nicely cut diamonds!
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clgwli
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2011, 03:09:51 PM »
Quote from: oldmancoyote on July 20, 2011, 02:59:40 PM
Quote from: DiaGem on July 20, 2011, 02:14:34 PM
ETA: please don't ID me as a master....

Welcome to CDI - and don't be too modest; those are very nicely cut diamonds!
I so agree on both accounts! 
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2011, 06:59:17 AM »
Thank you, I try. Every stone that is cut is a different world and experience. A real challenge.
Like a new journey.
These new yellow OMB's are cut in an opposite fashion than most other colored & colorless cuts are cut.
My objective here is to capture the true body color of the material (not enhancing) so when viewed in the face up position the color would return as evenly as possible to the observers eye while working/cutting standard brilliant facet designs. These Diamonds display the same color when viewed either face up or in the profile position.
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Yoram F
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2011, 08:37:20 AM »
Quote from: DiaGem on July 23, 2011, 06:59:17 AM
Thank you, I try. Every stone that is cut is a different world and experience. A real challenge.
Like a new journey.
These new yellow OMB's are cut in an opposite fashion than most other colored & colorless cuts are cut.
My objective here is to capture the true body color of the material (not enhancing) so when viewed in the face up position the color would return as evenly as possible to the observers eye while working/cutting standard brilliant facet designs. These Diamonds display the same color when viewed either face up or in the profile position.

Welcome to CDI!  It's great to have you.  I agree with the Coyote, there's no need to be modest.  The diamonds are beautiful and unique.
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duckie  Annie  duckie
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dovesgate
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2011, 04:34:37 PM »
I just adore the diamonds with large facets in the middle. I do so love the chunky facets.

DiaGem, you are awesome!
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Mrs Mitchell
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2011, 12:16:11 PM »
DiaGem, it's fantastic to see you posting here, and to see your incredible diamonds. I can't tell you how much I love them. I'd say that calling you a master cutter is in all honesty, a bit of an understatement.  Wink

Jen
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