Author Topic: Radiants  (Read 12309 times)

Offline DiamondLady

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2007, 02:57:18 PM »
Ahyes, ME TOO! I thought that might be the one you were thinking of. I have loved that since the day I first saw it. Just an amazing look IMO.  Might be worth getting a serious price quote on though just to know for sure.
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Offline Diamondluvr

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2007, 03:03:13 PM »
DL-I too imagine that the quote to custom make that ring is going to be $$$, I love the one I posted in this thread:  http://coloreddiamond.info/forum-chit-chat/green-diamonds-would-you-wear-this-one-or-not/0/
She has spent her life best... who has enjoyed it most.

Offline Shelly

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Re: Bow Tie
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2007, 09:09:49 PM »
Hi David
I found this stone locally from a very reputable dealer.  Here are the particulars you asked for:
3.11Carats
SI2
I Color
9.43 x 8.45 x 4.65
55% Depth
71% Table
Medium polished Girdle
Very Good Polish
Very good Symetry
No Fluorescence
Great Price too
Thanks in advance

Offline WM

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2007, 07:58:24 AM »
 :david:

We'll flag this for the diamond master.

Offline BigRed

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2007, 11:01:24 AM »
wow 3.11 carats, that is huge!!!!!!! It sounds great! Did it take your breath away when you saw it, held it? That is the best sign of all whether or not you should get this stone!
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Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Bow Tie
« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2007, 11:36:09 AM »
Hi David
I found this stone locally from a very reputable dealer.  Here are the particulars you asked for:
3.11Carats
SI2
I Color
9.43 x 8.45 x 4.65
55% Depth
71% Table
Medium polished Girdle
Very Good Polish
Very good Symetry
No Fluorescence
Great Price too
Thanks in advance

Hi Shelley,
What is a "great price"? Knowing the price is essential to properly advising you.

Is there a GIA report?- have you and the seller discussed the differences in reports?
David
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Offline WM

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2007, 12:12:43 PM »
Thought I'd add that if you are uncomfortable posting a price here on the forum, you can send David a PM.

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2007, 01:23:50 PM »
Great point WM!~

I would never want anyone to feel pressured to give out any info they are uncomfortable with.
I'll be happy to discuss this privately with Shelly.
We don't have to discuss it on the forum.

In terms of our readers, and using this forum to get any usefull info - the price is integral to the conversation.
David
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Offline Shelly

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #58 on: September 27, 2007, 06:53:11 PM »
I don't mind discussing the price.  I haven't bought it yet.  $17K is what the asking price is.  This is his price as I saw the invoice.  He will charge me 10% above as his commission.  It was graded by EGL.  It has quite a beautiful cut and great sparkle.  Just the bow tie which in certain light you don't see and the shallowness of the stone is the down side.  SI2- no problem for me.  I color- a beautiful white stone.  It's a big look as you can see from the dimensions.  I think I have a winner.  I looked at alot of stones and that one made me smile....

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #59 on: September 27, 2007, 07:34:34 PM »
HI Shelly,
First and foremost, if you love the diamond,, and are comfortable with the seller- then by all means, go for it.

Since you are here asking we can go over a few of the things I'd look at:

Depth and overall cut: It's not necessarily a "bad " thing to have a 55% depth. Not all diamonds of 55% will have a bow tie. If you are seeing a bow tie now, it may become more or less prominent once the diamond is set. I'm assuming the diamond is loose.
Have you considered how you'll be setting it? I always advise folks that if they can possibly buy the diamond and setting from the same seller, it protects the buyer.


In terms of the price and lab report: There's no question the diamond is valued well below a diamond graded I/SI2 by GIA .
The price of $17k is certainly reasonable, and a lot less than you'd find a well cut GIA graded stone of similar grade and size.

Personally, I'd prefer the same diamond if it had a GIA report- even with a lesser grade.
I believe in a hypothetical situation the consumer is better owning a K/I1  with a GIA report than the very same diamond with another report calling it J/SI2

None of this is a knock on the stone or the seller- just things you might want to know.
David
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Offline Shelly

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2007, 08:51:33 PM »
Thank you very much David for your feedback.  Yes, I would have him set it as well.  I would prefer to have a GIA grading, but unfortunately I don't think I want to turn this down even if it is graded EGL.  I thought EGL was the next best thing to GIA.  Are they that far off from GIA?  I thought they had very strict guidelines as well. 
Anyway, I appreciate your advice and I feel kind of funny since you sell diamonds as well and I'm not buying one from you.  If I lived in NY you bet I'd come to see you.  It's just difficult for me since I live in Florida.  I'd rather not make this kind of purchase long distance. 
Thanks again.

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2007, 09:08:06 PM »
You're more than welcome Shelly!
In fact, thousands of folks who never thought they;d buy a diamond long distance have done just that from us.
We don't even have a walk in store!
We do it by showing a lot of detailed photos.


AS far as GIA versus the other labs.

It's not really a question of how much more accurate GIA is. It's that in the trade, worthwhile dealers and stones only use GIA- or nothing.
I'd say that in general, if we were offering a 17k 3 carat Near colorless diamond, it might not have a GIA report.
There's nothing wrong with any lab report. The problem is that many buyers do not understand the difference.
Then a seller might be able to make a case that his $17k 3 carat was somehow equivalent to a 20K 3ct I/SI2 with GIA report.
I'm not saying that's happening here.

Aother aspect....... if people consider diamonds an investment, I tell them this:
For consumers, diamonds are not a valid financial instrument- mainly because a consumer can not easily sell a diamond for market value.

BUT- a diamond , as compared to a lot of other items people buy, will actually hold value better.
Put it this way- if a consumer today, needs to sell a 3.17 I/SI2 Eye clean well cut diamond with GIA report, they would probably be able to get ...I don't know..say $10k from a pawn shop or -re-seller type of cash buyer. Maybe more. But they would find a buyer much more easily than if the diamond has a non GIA report.

The ability to subsequently trade up is another thing you might consider when purchasing.. ( hey, I'm allowed to have a little DBL commercial right?)
David
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Offline djm195

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2007, 08:17:09 AM »
...The ability to subsequently trade up is another thing you might consider when purchasing.. ( hey, I'm allowed to have a little DBL commercial right?)

I always wondered something...speaking of buying long distance...let's say, hypothetically of course, someone is interested in two different stones/rings but can't decide which one would look better in person. Are the stones/rings ever shipped together on approval (with a deposit of course)?
 :DJ: :david:

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2007, 10:57:01 AM »
Hey djm- great question!

Generally, no. It's actually not been something we've had to do.
I suppose it's certainly possible- but we try to give the buyers an overabundance of visuals to assist them.....
David
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Offline Shelly

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2007, 12:38:56 PM »
  ???I'd say that in general, if we were offering a 17k 3 carat Near colorless diamond, it might not have a GIA report ???

Davd, I don't understand this statement above completely.  Can you explain?  Are you saying it would probably not be possible to get a GIA report for this stone?  Sorry but don't get it.

If you got a stone with the specs I gave you and it had a GIA report what do you think the sell price would be?     Why don't you think the dealer got a GIA report done and an EGL instead. 

Would you pass up a stone if it's graded by EGL?

« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 12:42:50 PM by Shelly »

Offline annie1

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2007, 12:49:00 PM »
Hi Shelly, I'm going to add a:  :david:  so that he's sure to see your questions. :)
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Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2007, 05:33:18 PM »
  ???I'd say that in general, if we were offering a 17k 3 carat Near colorless diamond, it might not have a GIA report ???

Davd, I don't understand this statement above completely.  Can you explain?  Are you saying it would probably not be possible to get a GIA report for this stone?  Sorry but don't get it.




hi Shelly,
In general, stones that fall below a certain price ( considering the carat weight) are commonly traded at the wholesale level without a GIA report.
For example- it would be more reasonable for a dealer to show a $5000 per carat 3 carat diamond without a GIA report. If a cutter or dealer has a stone that's going to bring $10,000 a carat, he's going to need the GIA report to back it up.
We had a round brown diamond of 3.02carats a few weeks ago. No GIA report. It was $12975......
SO- when we are offering stones on the lower end of the price scale- "promotional" diamonds , as it were- they might not have a GIA report.
If we were offering a $20,000 3 carat?........ at that point, I would not feel comfortable offering the diamond without the GIA.

Quote
If you got a stone with the specs I gave you and it had a GIA report what do you think the sell price would be?     Why don't you think the dealer got a GIA report done and an EGL instead. 

Good question!
I'd say a nice looking, 3.11carat, eye clean diamond - well cut and graded I/SI2 by GIA will have to be sold for at least $20k today- $22k is more realistic ( I'm not giving an exact price because we don't happen to have one in inventory right now- although we can source one for you)


As far as the reasoning behind the lack of GIA report.....
There's got to be a reason the diamond is the price it is.
Could it be that the other labs might be softer on the grading of such a stone? Maybe GIA would have graded the diamond J/I1.
We don't know that, but again the price- that tells us a lot.
It's really quite low for a 3.11 I/Si2 ......

Quote
Would you pass up a stone if it's graded by EGL?
First let me say that yes, I would pass on any higher quality diamond without a GIA report.
But if it was a 3 carat trading at $17k, and I loved the diamond and we were open to buying one, no, I would not pass simply becasue there was no GIA. I would however disregard any report besides GIA. You'll find stones with no GIA reports in our store- but no sizble diamond with EGL , or any other labs.

We have sold some lovely J-K-L diamonds that were presented to me with EGL reports....
But remember, I know who I'm buying from very well, and I really know what I'm looking at.

What did the seller tell you about EGL?

David
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Offline Shelly

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #67 on: October 03, 2007, 07:14:05 AM »
Hi David,
The seller really didn't say why the stone wasn't graded by GIA, but he said the stone has a fabulous look even if GIA graded it lower than EGL.  He agreed that it would be better to have been graded GIA which I told him that was really all I was interested in seeing, however he said he wanted me to see this stone because of the look and price.   I looked at it through the loop, looked at it in natural light and I love the shape, the cut, the size, the color looks white enough and it's clean to the eye.  The only thing I didn't love was the bowtie effect, but it doesn't bother me enough to say no to it.  It is what it is....$17K for a fabulous looking stone-EGL.  I guess if was graded GIA I'd be paying $22K.....or if they (GIA) graded it J/I1 maybe $17K.  I don't know...  I can't see them giving it I1, because it's so clean to the eye.  J color-maybe- it looks pretty white to me, but I guess it could go J.  Would the price drop to $17K if the grading was J-I1 by GIA? Does the bowtie effect the clairity grading?  Oh this is a tricky business.  I think it's a beauty and I don't think I'd be overpaying.  I guess for resale value EGL is not a good thing.  But, I don't plan on selling it anytime soon.  Thank you so much for your time to answer my questions.   :)

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #68 on: October 03, 2007, 11:46:52 AM »
Quote
I guess if was graded GIA I'd be paying $22K
Hi Shelley-the bottom line is that if you love the diamond, and are comfortable, buy it.
BUT- the logic above is completely backwards.
If the diamond had a value of $22k, you'd be paying 22k.
The 17k price tag is all the evidence we need to determine what the diamond is worth.
The cutter would not be selling the diamond for this price if it was actually a well cut I/Si2.
Again, I am not discouraging you from buying a 17K diamond- rather making sure you understand the value.......
Look at it this way- many people get sucked into believing the $17 diamond is identical  to the 22k stone except for the lab report.
David
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Offline BigRed

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #69 on: October 03, 2007, 12:46:42 PM »
Shelly, if you really like the stone then go for it! From what I gathered from Davids answers you are getting a good deal. That is a good price for a 3+ct stone. My only concern is your thoughts on the bow-tie. Did you ask the jeweler what effect setting it may have on the bow-tie? If it would hide that effect then do it but if it brings it out even more then I fear you may not be happy. It seems that is the only point you seem to have a problem with! Am I right?
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Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #70 on: October 03, 2007, 12:57:21 PM »
From what I gathered from Davids answers you are getting a good deal. 

BigRed- I NEVER said it's a good deal- I could not make such an assesment without seeing the diamond......I'm always uncomfortable when a seller is pushing an EGL stone...
David
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Offline Mrs Mitchell

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #71 on: October 03, 2007, 01:12:49 PM »
Shelly, I really hope you find the right stone, one that you love. Could I suggest that if for any reason you don't go with this one, that you consider a small 'trial run' DBL purchase? (there's no conflict of interest in me saying this because I'm not associated with DBL, I'm just a happy customer!). If you could buy something small, you'd get to try out the process from ordering to shipping and if need be, returns policy. I think you'd then be a lot more comfortable with a bigger purchase.

I live in the UK, as do a few other people round here and we've had positive long distance experiences. If this isn't helping, please ignore me, but otherwise, if you would consider it, a small try out purchase might make you feel a lot more confident about a bigger purchase. Hey, you can always send it back if you don't love it!

Good luck finding your stone and wherever you get it, please let us see a million photos! ;D

Jen
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 01:13:26 PM by Mrs Mitchell »
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Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2007, 02:24:14 PM »
From what I gathered from Davids answers you are getting a good deal. 

BigRed- I NEVER said it's a good deal- I could not make such an assesment without seeing the diamond......I'm always uncomfortable when a seller is pushing an EGL stone...

BR- I apologize if my post was worded strongly-  Sometimes when I'm busy my responses might seem terse...your opinons are ALWAYS welcome here.
Thank you too Mrs Mitchell, and AZ-

I think AZsparkle has some good points.
I'd hate to "rain on anyone's diamond parade"- but the nature of a person's questions often speak a lot about what is underlying in the decision making.......
David
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Offline WM

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2007, 07:16:13 PM »
One thing that was important to me was a trade up policy. I did not think of that when I got an e-ring and later I wished I had one. So you might want to ask. Best of luck to you. It's such a hard decision.

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Radiants
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2007, 07:44:12 PM »
You know this does bring up some good points.

Shelly, I want to re-iterate that you're welcome to ask questions- it does not matter if you buy from us or not. Well, of course it does, but not with regard to getting your question answered. I am more grateful than you can know for the amazing support of friends here, but please- feel comfortable.

Back to the conversation....
Here's my gut feeling on this:
If you told me you were looking at a drop dead gorgeous I/Si2 ( and the words "bow tie" never entered into it) with GIA report that was priced a few thousand more than we ( or other internet sellers) could sell it for, and you were comfortable with the seller, I would feel much better- on your behalf. I'd feel more comfortable giving a "go ahead"
Of course, here I am spending thousands more than you wanted to spend.

I do think that $17k is really below what we'd normally suggest for someone looking for a colorless, or near colorless 3 carat. That's part of the difference in outlook we have.
Sure, we have 3 carat stones for $17k- or less. But these are light yellow diamonds- which can run 25% less than an I- or a darker yellow. Or they are I1.

I would generally suggest a smaller stone to maintain budget- or possibly an I1 if we can find a non obtrusive one.
From D-Z- and down to Vivid, there's no particular color I don't like in a diamond. I can live with small spots I can see- even sometimes large ones- but if a stone is not well cut, it's $hitcanned in my book. This is also true as far as "market value"
The one cardinal rule I try and follow- Cut is essential.

I'm sorry if this muddles the issue- but you are here asking- and you deserve straight answers.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 08:19:17 PM by Diamondsbylauren »
David
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