Author Topic: Irradiated RED diamond  (Read 4981 times)

Offline Newby

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Irradiated RED diamond
« on: November 02, 2013, 04:47:41 AM »
Hey guys,

I have a 1.5 carat Irradiated RED diamond... It has primarily a RED colour with ark secondary tones. Apologies for the photo... it shows up a nice deep red in proper light.
My question is... how much would such a diamond be worth - even tho it is irradiated??

Many thanks

If u need more photos, I will post a few more

Thanks

Luke

Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2013, 05:33:56 PM »
No way of telling... it depends on a lot of other variables. Precise carat weight (1.57?), cut, clarity, whether it's pure red and how dark it is etc. Plus, of course, it depends on what you mean by "worth": is it how much you could sell it for? To a consumer or to a dealer? Or is it how much you should insure it for?

Irradiated reds are relatively rare - this also makes any attempt to find comparables rather difficult. Last one I saw for sale was a nice (in photo) 1 carat or so for about $10,000. Whether the seller sold it for that, I have no idea!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 05:34:54 PM by oldmancoyote »

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 07:01:07 PM »
Hi Newby
Welcome to CDI
in my experience, irradiated diamonds will not bring prices higher than the lowest priced natural diamonds. Although someone graded diamond red, that does not equate to GIA grading a diamond red
As OMC said - the question of value revolves around how much someone is willing to pay.
How much did you pay for the stone?
David
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Offline Newby

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2013, 02:38:25 AM »
Thanks guys :)
The price was $2200 U.S dollars. It's primary hue colour appears to be vivid red, the diamond is also dark in some light and there is a small surface inclusion.
I was hoping to sell it to a consumer / dealer at a later time as I thought the price was fairly cheap to pick it up for this amount?  What do you guys think?

Also, Strange question.. He has a 2.01 carat natural pink diamond, which has been slightly irradiated I think - it only appeared to have a slight color change at the surface of the diamond. (almost a burnt / patchy appearance when u look at it up close)

He informed me the diamond was a natural pink that they had just heated slightly. It was at least VS1 clarity - I could see no inclusions with the naked eye, even for such a sizable diamond. The sale price is $12000 U.S.  I can post pictures of this one also if you wish>  What do you think would be a better buy if this were the case, compared to the price of both this pink mentioned and the red>?

Thanks for the opinions! :)

Offline Newby

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2013, 02:56:26 AM »
Here are several pics of the 'slightly heated natural pink diamond'.... What do you guys think??

Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2013, 06:11:15 AM »
Thanks guys :)
The price was $2200 U.S dollars. It's primary hue colour appears to be vivid red, the diamond is also dark in some light and there is a small surface inclusion.
I was hoping to sell it to a consumer / dealer at a later time as I thought the price was fairly cheap to pick it up for this amount?  What do you guys think?
It is very unlikely you'd manage to resell to a dealer for a profit. The diamond market is very international, and that stone was likely offered (or even available when you bought it) to many dealers before finding a buyer. Resale to a consumer may well be possible, but it depends on how good you are at selling. Also, as a consumer, I want the guarantees and recourse I have with a business; since I don't have those things with a private individual selling, I'll demand a discount...

Beware that in the diamond business small details count for a lot. A pink-brown is worth a lot less than a brown-pink... even if they may sound (and even look) very similar.

The price may have been honest, but to know this for sure would depend on the details: what would GIA call the stone? Fancy Deep Brownish Red? Fancy Dark Reddish Brown? there's a factor of probably 50 in those words that to most people sound very similar.

Quote
Also, Strange question.. He has a 2.01 carat natural pink diamond, which has been slightly irradiated I think - it only appeared to have a slight color change at the surface of the diamond. (almost a burnt / patchy appearance when u look at it up close)
If it were a natural pink, it would not have been irradiated. The blotchy appearance is typical of diamonds that have been irradiated where the radiation treatment has worked in very different ways in different parts of the diamond; it's generally a sign of highly distorted lattice and significant inclusions (which btw are apparent in your photos, if one knows what to look for: the colour banding IS considered an "inclusion", called "internal graining").

Quote
He informed me the diamond was a natural pink that they had just heated slightly. It was at least VS1 clarity - I could see no inclusions with the naked eye, even for such a sizable diamond. The sale price is $12000 U.S.  I can post pictures of this one also if you wish>  What do you think would be a better buy if this were the case, compared to the price of both this pink mentioned and the red>?

Thanks for the opinions! :)
There is no such thing as "heated slightly". There is untreated and treated. Even a minimal (detectable) amount of treatment qualifies the stone as treated, and that's what fixes the price.

FWIW, based on your three images, what I see is a brown, possibly with orange and maybe even some pink overtones, but definitely a brown. And it's not by any means a VS1. The internal graining is very visible.

Leave well alone, particularly at $12,000.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 06:12:30 AM by oldmancoyote »

Offline Trinkette

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 07:44:13 AM »
Run like a bunny from the burnt-patchy-treated brown (yes, I see orange and maybe pink in there as well, but I'd bet a reputable lab would call it "brown" with modifiers). Aside from the overall brown hue, your description alone should be enough to turn you away. Burnt? Patchy? Not on the top of my desirable diamond descriptor list.

Sometimes, when you have trouble deciding whether or not to purchase a stone, try thinking how you would market it if it were YOUR stone to sell. What words would you use to describe it. If you can't sing its praises, it is probably best to pass.

Although I can't judge of the stone's topside appearance from the photos, what I CAN see from your photos does not light my fire. OMC is spot-on. To compare, take a look at some of the DBL browns and pinks.

I'm sorry, but in my mind, this diamond should be at the bottom of the price ladder. And you can get a LOT more for $12K in a colored diamond. Look for something with a GIA report. In the end, if you have to make excuses for a stone unless it is exceptional in nearly every way except, perhaps, one characteristic pass.  :bunny7:
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 07:47:33 AM by Trinkette »

Offline Trinkette

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 08:10:55 AM »
And may I humbly state with all deference to David who is incredibly reasonable, fair and honest unless you're on the wholesale side of the business, have legitimate connections, and know your diamond stuff, there are no great deals to be had in diamonds for everyday consumers purchasing from diamond professionals. Especially in treated diamonds. If the price seems "cheap" then the wholesale price is even "cheaper." The seller's profit margin is unlikely to change a whole lot.

Keep in mind, as methods for replicating/treating diamonds become more sophisticated, these unnatural stones are becoming more prevalent in the market. And legitimate labs, like GIA, are spending a great deal of effort, time and money to research and create ways to detect treated and man-made stones. In the end, all-natural stones are more rare, and should become more rare as knock-offs flood the market. Natural stones may not be "cheap" and you're still beholden to the seller's profit margin, however, they represent a much better buy, especially for the long-term. Look for a colored stone with a report from an up and up lab like GIA from a dealer you trust, who is happy to educate you, and will stand behind his/her merchandise.

Offline Trinkette

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 08:11:44 AM »
Okay, I'll climb off the box now.  :1857272:

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2013, 06:22:27 PM »
Thanks guys :)
The price was $2200 U.S dollars. It's primary hue colour appears to be vivid red, the diamond is also dark in some light and there is a small surface inclusion.
I was hoping to sell it to a consumer / dealer at a later time as I thought the price was fairly cheap to pick it up for this amount?  What do you guys think?

Also, Strange question.. He has a 2.01 carat natural pink diamond, which has been slightly irradiated I think - it only appeared to have a slight color change at the surface of the diamond. (almost a burnt / patchy appearance when u look at it up close)

He informed me the diamond was a natural pink that they had just heated slightly. It was at least VS1 clarity - I could see no inclusions with the naked eye, even for such a sizable diamond. The sale price is $12000 U.S.  I can post pictures of this one also if you wish>  What do you think would be a better buy if this were the case, compared to the price of both this pink mentioned and the red>?

Thanks for the opinions! :)

Hi Newby...
Oh my.
i get really peeved when I read accounts of dealers that besmirch the reputation of all diamond dealers by...."extending the truth"

There are no treatments that "slightly heat" a diamond. there are ultra high temperature treatment- but this just looks like a dark diamond.
Pink, as a color, can't be obtained by irradiation.
There are coating that can make a diamond look pink- but they are unstable, and pretty much undesirable
Treated diamonds, in general, are very hard to sell.
Trinkette and OMC have given great advice already- bt as a dealer, it really pain me to hear how some dealers are willing to say almost anything to make a sale....

I'm sorry- but I do think you want straight answers - and glad we can provide them
David
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Offline Newby

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 03:22:56 AM »
Thanks for the comments all!

The reason as to why I am so curious... Is that one of my mates bought 2 diamonds from this guy... a 0.5 carat natural pink (very faint in colour) princess cut, and an irradiated and annealed pink diamond... about 0.25 carat.

He bought the first natural pink for $3000 US, and the enhanced one for $400 US.

When he took them home, he got the natural valued at $16000 and sold for $12000 on the spot... and the enhanced was valued at $12000 and sold for $8000 on the spot (dealer)

Interesting huh??

Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 04:33:01 AM »
Good for him.

Offline clgwli

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 07:39:41 AM »
Personally I would think that my friend is pulling my leg with that story.  I honestly have a very hard time believing it.

If you are looking to buy and resell to make a quick buck, you will be in for a surprise with how hard it would be to do that.  

That said, welcome Newby!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 08:24:23 AM by clgwli »
Squiggly

Offline lovecolor

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 07:43:40 AM »
 :icon_scratch:   I don't know why anyone would pay that much for a .25 ct treated diamond   ...( I'd like to ask that dealer if he was interested in a buying the Brooklyn bridge...oops, did I just say that out loud???)   :N1oops03HL2:

Anyway...Hello Newby, it's nice to meet you.  :hello:

Offline Newby

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 11:02:57 AM »
That's exactly what I thought... But he swears by it and is now trying to chase up more from this same guy.

Maybe the guy who bought them actually has no idea and it's a lucky one off sale. Old man coyote... love your optimism too lol.

Nice to meet you guys and appreciate the comments hey - I am definately err'ing on the side of caution now after reading them :)

Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2013, 11:17:49 AM »
Well.. you know... be careful. The world is full of tall tales.

And please tell us what happens to that red!

Offline saqsay1

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2013, 03:32:48 PM »
Is it weird to get turned on by OMC's analytical replies? Oh my, I need a shower  :hot_stern: :Exit-Stage-Right:  ;D
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Offline ah2bqat

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Re: Irradiated RED diamond
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2013, 01:03:46 PM »
Just proves that brains are the sexiest part of us all, saqsay1.  And I know precisely how you feel.   >:D
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