Author Topic: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!  (Read 9781 times)

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« on: April 28, 2013, 09:44:30 PM »
Hi Everyone!
What is a trannie- a transitional Cut diamond?
OMC made an excellent post that clarifies:
To be called as "Old European Brilliant" (or "Old Mine Brilliant" if not round in shape), GIA wants at least 3 out of:

1. Table equal to or less than 53%
2. Culet equal to or larger than slightly large
3. Average crown angles of the centre bezels (across the width for cushions) are equal to or greater than 40
4. Lower half length equal to or smaller than 60% (by visual inspection only)

Which rules out effectively all transitional cut brilliants and also many truly "old" ones, with the odd result that they end up being lumped with modern rounds and given a cut grade that in my opinion is totally irrelevant (a bit like judging an 18th century house on the basis of rational use of space and energetic efficiency on 21st century criteria).

Squig wrote:

snip... Tolk diamonds were invented in 1919 and diamonds in the 20s and 30s (from what I've seen) were gradually shifting in look to what we get now in the modern round brilliants.  

snip

I find it to be a cool period of time in the process of improvement in technology that lead to modern round brilliant diamonds. And of course other shapes.
If we look at this from a distance- it would seem that the basic design for Old Mine Brilliant and Old European Cut possess attributes that are valued today to the extent they are viable categories.

Transitional diamonds are far less of a "category"- even by GIA standards.
There's far fewer if for no other reason that technology and cutting prowess increased rapidly at that point. By the time WWII ended, when the diamond business came roaring back, in the '50's, the modern round brilliant was well established.

What this means is that the pool of true transitional stones- from the 20's and '30s was probably not all that great to begin with- and the ease of re-cutting stones like this means that most stones of import ( larger ones and higher quality) are now living as Modern Round Brilliants.

Here's a stone we took in trade recently






Here's the GIA report


One thing that stands out too me- in a positive sense- is that GIA gave this VG cut grade in spite of some easily visible aspects we might feel would offhand eliminate it.
For one thing, look at the measurements. The diamond is out of round to a loupe visible degree
Not that it hurts the stone in terms of overall brilliance and beauty.
What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 09:47:01 PM by Diamondsbylauren »
David
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Offline Sanchica27

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2013, 11:32:06 PM »
I have learned that what attracts me most in a white (or white enough) diamond is color fire.  I feel like the older cuts or older styled cuts give more fire than the modern rbs that give the white sparkle.  I also like the bolder facets in the transitional style.  It's also why I like the step cut diamonds, bold flashes make me happy.
always saving up for my next piece!

Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 05:53:38 AM »
[snip]
What do you guys think?
My usual semi-random thoughts:

1. The GIA cut grade is awarded largely mechanically on pure angles/proportion averages. In theory GIA could (should?) downgrade/upgrade exceptional stones, but they don't seem to. Plug the values into the Facetware app, and you'll get the expected grade. So far, I could not find a single example where the Facetware result disagreed with the actual grade on the report. http://facetware.gia.edu/

2. The characteristics that make "this" stone a transitional are in my mind the out-of-round girdle (but GIA seems to consider as "out of round" from about 5% on, and the maximum here is 2.7%) and the short lower girdle facets, that make for a lovely "flower" pattern rather than the arrows.

3.The good symmetry grade is clearly a significant driver, in the sense that without that a lot of other things would have fallen out.

Other than that, it's a lovely stone. But it's one that needs to be seen rather than sold "on paper".

Offline clgwli

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 07:18:51 AM »
Oh this one is a cool looking stone!  Trannies to me are a really unique looking stones.  Sometimes they are more obvious than others as well but if you take out your loupe you notice that the stone has a small culet or a bruted girdle.  I have such a stone that the ring was dated to 1933 IIRC (I have it written somewhere).  They do look different to me and honestly I prefer a good transitional cut diamond or OEC to a MRB.

Sometimes the cut is quite obvious as in the diamond in this listing.  The more "floral" appearance is quite appealing to me as is the "fat arrows" look of others.  Granted some modern RB diamonds have "fatter arrows" than others, but there seems to always be a subtle difference.

When it comes to older diamonds whether OEC or Transitional cut, I think the GIA report is only useful to tell me what color and clarity the diamond is.  I've seen poor symmetry on an OEC and it looks stunning.  Cut grades for me are tossed out the window.

I firmly believe people need to see pictures of diamonds they are purchasing as the GIA report can only tell so much of a story :)
Elaine aka Squiggly
elaine@diamondsbylauren.com

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 09:44:24 PM »
I had a nice discussion with Sam Spade today.
He's retired, but sharp as a (talkative) tack

He was a cutter before and after WWII.
Sam cites advances made to the "dop" was instrumental in a rapid increase of the state of the art.
The dop is the part of the polishing mechanism that holds the diamond.
This allowed a greater precision on the pavilion.
If you think about it, the type makes Sam and I knew as " the best" were really "burned into our minds" in the time before "Ideal Cut".
The type of stone that we - an the trade- favored had longer Lower Girdle Facets- say around 80% with a 60/60 make.  Compare this to the current trend to shorter LGF's, say 75% that promote hearts and arrows.
You could say the LGF's are like hemlines...up and down:) 
David
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Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2013, 09:20:29 PM »
This is one beautiful example of a misunderstood trannie.




There's an EGL report calling it old European
Here's the stats from the report:
ITEM #: R5186
Platinum Diamond Ring

CENTER STONE:
  WEIGHT: 1.81ct
  QUANTITY: 1
  SHAPE: Old European Cut
  COLOR: M
  CLARITY: VS
  MEASUREMENTS: 7.92 x 7.72 x 4.73 mm
  TOTAL DEPTH: 61.3%
  TABLE SIZE: 59.0%
  FLUORESCENCE: NONE


MOUNTING:
  Platinum

Currently sized at: 6.25
We will ship the ring in your size.

Price: $10495

AS we can see, the table depth combo is well outside the GIA mandated profile OMC listed earlier.
It does look somewhat like an OEC- but the culet is very small- which is a clue.
This does seem to be either an existing stone cut in the transitional period- or one cut to look that way.
The stone is in perfect condition.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 09:34:19 PM by Diamondsbylauren »
David
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Offline Sanchica27

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2013, 09:37:19 PM »
UGH this ring is perfect!!! I love the inside only milgrain!  Ahhhh!
always saving up for my next piece!

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2013, 09:45:37 PM »
Thanks Sanchica! CDi special price of $9995 ( wink wink)
David
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Offline Sanchica27

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2013, 10:20:20 PM »
If I could I would!
always saving up for my next piece!

Offline DiamondsAreForever

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2013, 04:50:35 AM »
A beautiful stone!

Offline clgwli

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2013, 07:12:14 AM »
I love this stone and ring!  How I wish I could have it!!
Elaine aka Squiggly
elaine@diamondsbylauren.com

Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2013, 07:36:00 AM »
It looks like a rose cut - except that of course it will have the brightness of a brilliant cut.

Offline rio

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Re: Let's talk about- and look at Trannie Diamonds!
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2013, 11:39:04 PM »
I think the stone's color could also be called candlelight a term used to market off white  stones.

rio