Author Topic: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(  (Read 22335 times)

Offline G

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2012, 08:34:40 AM »

No i haven't called you. These dealers were encountered
when going with a friend for their business dealings. 

Will keep your items in mind when looking for another
piece though. Thank you.
It's all about the color of life. Take time and reflect in the diamonds.

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2012, 12:10:00 PM »
It's really savage out there.
I'm spoiled- because we've got long term relationships that allow me to avoid a lot of what goes on.
Every now and then we get a reminder- much like a slap in the face when we need to have interactions with the more typical operation here on 47th street.
Happened last night.......man!

Someone was in looking at a few large Fancy Light Yellow Diamonds. They asked if we would show it to "their appraiser" before purchase.
Normally I would not have gone personally- Rob would have went- but for some reason last night I decided to go.
"The appraiser" turns out to be another jeweler. Immediately as he looked at our ring he started speaking in an excited voice ( clearly not happy) in a foreign language.
After a few minutes of waving hands I interrupted
"Could I ask you to speak in English so I can understand what you're saying please?"
"THIS STONE IS ****- YOU MUST ONLY BUY VIVID YELLOW OR D COLOR- THIS IS A **** DIAMOND"

"Excuse me? How much is this ring worth?" ( nearly five carat fancy light yellow VS)
$5000

"WHAT??!?!"

"Maybe in a store it's $50,000 or $100,000 I don't know but this is **** diamond."

May I please have my ring, kind sir?
Needless to say, no one was very happy.

I was upset at myself for loosing my cool- but it was a stark reminder of what many consumers face.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 12:43:11 PM by Diamondsbylauren »
David
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Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2012, 02:04:04 PM »
It would have been interesting to ask him to show the customer another 5 carat diamond... and check his price  >:D

Offline DiamondsAreForever

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2012, 02:40:35 PM »
Well, obviously the customer liked the diamond, otherwise he wouldn't have asked if it was OK to have someone else look at it, and that's what counts.  The "Appraiser" probably couldn't match the deal and calling it a sh*t diamond was the only thing he could think of to turn the prospective buyer off.

So, David, curiousity is killing the cat here, what did the prospective buyer have to say?  

Although you've had some really nice vivid yellows lately, some that I've seen in the past elsewhere have had a greenish tinge to them, which reminds me of irradiated stones.  I truly prefer the lighter stones, as I'm sure many others do on this forum.

...oh, look at that avatar over there.  What an absolutely beautiful work of art someone made!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 02:46:56 PM by DiamondsAreForever »

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2012, 02:59:43 PM »
Well, obviously the customer liked the diamond, otherwise he wouldn't have asked if it was OK to have someone else look at it, and that's what counts.  The "Appraiser" probably couldn't match the deal and calling it a sh*t diamond was the only thing he could think of to turn the prospective buyer off.

So, David, curiousity is killing the cat here, what did the prospective buyer have to say?  

Although you've had some really nice vivid yellows lately, some that I've seen in the past elsewhere have had a greenish tinge to them, which reminds me of irradiated stones.  I truly prefer the lighter stones, as I'm sure many others do on this forum.

...oh, look at that avatar over there.  What an absolutely beautiful work of art someone made!
Thanks daf :heart2:

The prospective buyer was immediately shocked, I believe.
After we'd walked out she said she wants to think about vivid yellow, or white diamonds.
The "appraiser" was from the old country- and his position was that he was trying to "protect her"

ALL Fancy Light yellow diamonds are $hit as far as this joker is concerned.
OMC's point is spot on. And I did ask the gentleman what kind of these $hitty stones he could produce at the prices he was claiming- and that we'd buy all of them.

BUt the lesson to be learned here, for me, is the importance of keeping one's cool.
I was really upset, and not doing any kind of a job to hie that fat.
"Who are you to tell this nice lady what she want's??"

besides the aspect daf mentioned- the fact that a lo of buyers actually prefer the lighter colors- going from an almost 5ct ring to an almost 2ct ring is a totally different ball of wax- this lady wanted a big diamond.


The scary thing is that most of these type of things take placed behind closed doors- we've only heard the tip of the iceberg about the, misinformation, inaccurate info and outright lies consumers are told in diamond and jewelry shopping
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 03:00:42 PM by Diamondsbylauren »
David
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Offline DiamondsAreForever

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2012, 07:54:06 AM »
I want a five carat diamond, too.  Unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time soon.  I can tell you that when I've worn my yellow radiant, which is set with trilliant sides, no one has ever commented on the saturation of the color, they just notice a beautiful yellow diamond, and I would venture a guess that none of them has ever seen a yellow diamond before.

Offline clgwli

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2012, 08:04:05 AM »
I find this a little amusing since I am drawn to slightly less saturated colors.  I totally appreciate the vivids and intense, but for my daily life I actually prefer the Fancy Lights or the strong Natural Light shades of diamonds (of all colors).

Let me tell you even before I reset Sunny into the double bezel - where she looks even more yellow than before - I was asked all the time if that was a "canary diamond"  I had to smile would answer and say "yes, that is a yellow diamond".  The average person here doesn't see intensity of color as much as just the color if that makes sense.

I love my two lighter colored diamonds.
Elaine aka Squiggly
elaine@diamondsbylauren.com

Offline Trinkette

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2012, 10:32:11 AM »
So sorry, D, that this fellow ruffled your feathers. I'm giving your client the benefit of the doubt that this was an innocent request for a second opinion, and not a staged show to attempt a killer price negotiation (although, there's no harm in trying, right?)  >:D

When mulling this all over, I hope the client takes into account the total unprofessional behavior of the other jeweler, err, "appraiser." To totally assault another professional's merchandise in such a crude manner, within eye- and earshot of both client and professional offering the diamond, speaks more to the "appraiser's" character than it does the diamond.

And yes, if one were seeking out an INVESTMENT stone, and one were to have no problem with the expense, a 2-plus carat D or Fancy Vivid would be an excellent way to go. It doesn't take a gnarly mouthed "appraiser" to know that, does it?  However, even so, the difference in size, visual impact, desirability, and value between a 2ct and a 5ct diamond (most likely, regardless of difference in Fancy color range) IS significant.

And, just to play Devils Advocate, I must say, I was not aware that a colored or Fancy diamond that is not VIVID, or that any high-color diamond that is not D, is a piece of "doo doo." Someone should have told Elizabeth Taylor... the VC&A 7.25ct and 7.74ct LIGHT BROWN pear-shaped diamond ear pendants and 29ct LIGHT BROWN pear-shaped diamond ring given to her by Richard Burton were all pieces of you-know-what. Heck, they're not even YELLOW.

If someone wants to better understand the value of a large Fancy diamond, I'd advise him/her to check out auction results. For example, last year in Geneva, Sotheby's sold quite a few beautiful Fancy INTENSE yellow diamond pieces, as well as the coveted VIVIDs, of course. However, low and behold, there were some plain-old Fancy yellows that sold as well. Even the frumpy Fancy yellows were good enough to be included in a Magnificent Jewels auction...

BTW, The Kimberly Diamond is JUST Fancy Yellow as well... (of course, it is also 55.08cts).

My advice: if you seek to make a significant investment in a diamond (and significance is all relative to one's individual budget, btw), be diligent. Do your homework. Know what you like. Recognize quality when you see it, both in terms of the stone AND the build of the jewelry piece. Know what similar pieces are, or recently have been, on the market. Have a sense of where the diamond market is in terms of pricing. And, when push comes to shove, know where your preference boundaries are. YOURS, not someone else's. If you can't have EXACTLY what you want, yet, still, you want to go ahead with a purchase, what elements of the piece or stone are you willing to give-up? What are deal-breakers?

And, when seeking a second opinion, find a reputable, UNBIASED professional who has nothing to gain or loose by advising you.

Offline Sanchica27

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2012, 01:09:10 PM »
What a stubborn HATER! I love love love the less saturated colors!  Keep your chin up high David, we got you!
always saving up for my next piece!

Offline ah2bqat

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2012, 02:10:19 PM »
I love you, T!

Once again, I find your commentary and advice fair and unbiased, spot on for anyone interested in any stone of significance to them.

I'm sorry you and your client had to go through such a traumatic interaction, D.  But we love you, and love those '$*%#ty', less than vivid saturated stones. Where would Li'L BLOO be if only those qualities should make a heart skip a beat?  OH, yeah, and those ivory JKL and beyond stones?.  They own my heart.
Auntie Dammit :Heart: DBL!

Offline saqsay1

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2012, 05:46:20 AM »
as the owner of a "s*^%$# diamond. All I have to say is....... May I have another?  ;D

Don't worry D We Love you!!!!
"If the US government were placed in control of the Sahara Desert, it would run out of sand in 25 years."

Offline G

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2012, 06:56:42 PM »

There is a lot of nonsense on the diamond row there. Both those
looking to buy retail or even wholesale have to have
enough knowledge to discern what is real versus what is not. Sorry
to hear you lost a sale due to this type of drama.

Was with my friend and saw someone trying to sell him a diamond
wholesale and it wasn't disclosed that it had been drilled out and filled to
make it look to be a better quality than it was. So yes lots of games
in that world on that street. There are also some good guys but also
scams perpetrated as well. Have heard of moisonites being sold as
real also irradiated being sold as natural so it's always good to have
the GIA full certification. Anyone can set up shop as an appraiser
and not all jewelers are as knowledgable as they would like others
to believe. Yes 47th street was a real eye opener. It's good to know
of another place that one can trust. Tomorrow is the show here in
Miami will you be at that one ? Many from New York come down
for this one (IWJG) and right after that comes the Watch and Antique
show. Unbelievable the amount of diamonds that arrive.

Your upset is totally understood - that guy cost you a sale and a
potential customer and that's just not right. Colored diamonds are
such a personal thing. One buys the color that moves you and makes
your day it doesn't matter any one elses opinion of the stone in
question. At one time Pinks were considered something to be thrown
away and NOW let's just say that is no longer the popular opinion.  :pear2:
It's all about the color of life. Take time and reflect in the diamonds.

Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2012, 09:01:36 AM »
I'd be careful about defining any deal involving a single transaction with a consumer as "wholesale". By definition, a one-time sale to a consumer is retail.

People can say they sell at "wholesale" prices (whatever they mean), but the fact is that "wholesale" implies a completely different relationship between buyer and seller than "retail" - not just in the level of prices, but in the amount of support and "hand-holding" that the buyer needs and/or receives, in return and payment conditions and their cost, and in the expectations of volume being driven through a "trade" account vs. a "consumer" one.

It is true that compared to 10 or 15 year ago the jewellery market has changed much to the benefit of consumers, with availability of dealers trading on considerably lower margins/prices particularly around the more common/commoditized types of diamonds and jewels. This still does not make these dealers "wholesalers".
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 09:08:30 AM by oldmancoyote »

Offline G

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2012, 07:45:29 PM »

i * was * talking most definitely about wholesale --- am quite familiar
with the difference thank you very much.  :)

The person i went to New York with buys jewelry in New York in volume and sells to
jewelry stores in Germany. This is NOT a one transaction thing. You are
reading into what was being said.

Just got back from a show (for the trade) and not all things are bought
in bulk although in this case he Did buy quite a bit for his upcoming
trip to germany. But have definitely seen him looking for a particular
stone that a jewelry store may be seeking. Now if you are going to say
that any time a single stone being bought is retail would have to
disagree with that. Those in the business don't buy retail to sell
to those selling retail. i am fortunate to be able to go as sort of a
consultant as to a woman's perspective of styles when he is
buying a lot of inventory to be sold over seas.     :4:

i buy retail.

The again Rapaport is not generally shared with the public but is well
known by those who are buyers. Have been quite interested in
diamonds and also colored stones for quite sometime. If it weren't
so expensive would be in the business but for now just watch from
the sidelines.



It's all about the color of life. Take time and reflect in the diamonds.

Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: I've had it!! I wanna go to GIA :(
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2012, 03:47:21 AM »
My apologies; I misread the situation you presented. To my exculpation, there are plenty of people that keep talking of (or being talked into) buying wholesale when in reality they may buy something from someone who also sells to the trade, possibly at a competitive price. It still does not make that sale "wholesale".

However, you are also reading into what is being said. I said "one-time sale to a consumer is retail", not that a single item sale is retail.

Of course, particularly in a high value, "unique item" trade like jewellery many wholesale transactions are about a single object. And I repeat, the issue is not so much the level of price - though of course a business has to make money or go bust. The issue is the nature of the relationship between buyer and seller - which is even recognised as different in law (at least in many jurisdictions, including the US).

It's interesting that you mention the Rap. Prior to the widespread availability and use of the internet for trade, it would have been relatively relevant as a price guide for dealers and consumers alike. Now consumers can do better - considerably better - than the Rap by using large retailers or diamond advertising sites where there are specific prices for hundreds of thousands of real diamonds. Dealers can also do better by using those (and trade) sites, again listing prices for individual stones at both trade and retail prices rather than the somewhat artificial Rap "average" for a colour/clarity/size.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 03:58:03 AM by oldmancoyote »