Author Topic: appraisal for pink  (Read 6823 times)

Offline jtmjjj

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appraisal for pink
« on: June 29, 2009, 02:00:12 PM »
Hi, 

I'm new but have been in love with diamonds forever.  I just had a 1.14 ct pink/champagne SI solitiare set into 1.25 ct (30 stone princess) VS colorless setting.  My jeweler appraised it at 15995.  Does that seem low?  He originally set the appriasal at 13995 for enhanced, but I produced paperwork for the natural pink. 

Thanks        Tonya

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 02:11:20 PM »
Hi Tonya,
Welcome to CDi!


It's not possible to appraise a ring without seeing it firsthand- but let's see if we can get you in a more clear position.

Is there a GIA report?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 02:11:58 PM by Diamondsbylauren »
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Offline jtmjjj

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2009, 03:14:30 PM »
No.  I contacted the seller and all she could tell me was she bought it from the cutter in Antwerp.  So no GIA or other report.

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2009, 03:33:15 PM »
hmmmm...sorry to say this- but to me, what you describe heavily increases the liklihood it's a treated stone.

Pink diamonds are so rare and costly, we find none of the cutters selling natural pinks over say .30ct does so without a GIA report.

Did you recently buy the diamond/ring?
David
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Offline jtmjjj

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 06:03:52 PM »
I bought it in September of last year from an ABC company diamonds via Ebay.  I thought they had to disclose every enhancement for a stone.  They had good feedback so I felt safe at the time.  I called her just the other day and she confirmed it was natural via the phone.  Now I feel silly.

Offline jtmjjj

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2009, 06:08:26 PM »
Should I get a GIA appraisal to see if it is natural - or just cut my losses?

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 07:13:46 PM »
Oh, that's terrible....
I'm sorry.
There's so much of people not selling honestly on eBay when it comes to pink diamonds.
I get very angry- you should not feel like you did anything wrong - these deceptive ads are permitted on eBay for some reason.
They call it natural 100 times and in tiny letters somewhere at the bottom they mention "enhancement" or "treatment"- if they even mention the treatment at all.

Sad to say but a GIA report ( they don't issue appraisals) isn't going to help if it's a treated diamond.

It seems the jeweler recognized immediately that it was a treated stone.
Is it noticeably pink?

I mean, bottom line is that , if you love it ( and are past the time where you could reasonably expect the seller to refund, or make some other settlement you might accept) then the best thing is to hope it's very pretty, and you love it!
David
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Offline ah2bqat

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2009, 07:42:27 PM »
and it's not just ebay, jtmjjj.  There is an online jewleller I used to use for nice colored stones and gold jewellry, we'll call it R-S.  I've used them for years for gifts and fun stuff.  I was looking at their eternity rings last week and saw a lovely 'blue diamond' baguette ring for under $1k.  I checked very carefully and saw NOTHING that indicated enhanced or treated:
1.65 ct. t.w. Blue and White Thin Diamond Eternity Band In 14k White Gold
Clearance from: $995.00
Retail from: $2,395.00

Product Details (for Size 5)
Style:   Eternity
Dimensions:   1/4 inch
Metal:  14kt White Gold
Finish:   Polished
Stone 1:  Diamond (Color: Blue, Shape: Baguette, Clarity: SI2, 0.90 carats)
Stone 2:  Diamond (Shape: Round, Color Grade: I, Clarity: I1-I2, 0.75 carats)

If I hadn't been hanging around here for the last 6 months or so, I never would have known.  Altho for $995 I don't think that's a bad price for almost a carat of enhanced blue diamonds.  Still, there's no way I'd ever pay 2k plus for such a ring.

You aren't silly, and should never feel badly about a decision you made with erroneous data.  Shame on the seller for the lack of truth in advertising, not on you.  
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 07:45:33 PM by ah2bqat »
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Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 08:01:16 PM »

That is another great example blooo....It's a bad reflection on jewelers in general.I hate that kind of thing!


The thing that really gets me peeved is how eBay is relentless on violations of certain types.

For example, if you have the unmitigated gall to use the term "wire transfer" your listing is removed.
If you try to appeal, you're treated like a criminal- it's remarkable.
But some sellers seem to get away with all kinds of garbage.
Isn't it damaging to eBay to have sellers advertising blue diamonds, and neglecting to mention they are treated?
To me, that should be the type of thing they need to police.....not like I'm prejudiced on this subject or anything...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 08:03:28 PM by Diamondsbylauren »
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Offline Mrs Mitchell

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2009, 03:27:37 AM »
jtmjjj, sorry you're upset about your ring.

It is still possible that it is an untreated stone. I'd have an appraiser confirm one way or the other. If it turns out to be treated, I'd return it to the seller for a full refund. If it was sold as a natural stone, it needs to be a natural stone. IMO misrepresentation to that extent would make any return policy or timescale irrelevant.

However, if you like the ring and you didn't pay way over the odds for it (for what it actually is) then maybe it's best just to enjoy it as a pretty thing to wear. If could wanted to post a few pics, we'd love to see it, regardless of its origin.

You shouldn't feel bad about it. You're entitled to rely on descriptions from 'expert' sellers. If the stone was misrepresented, maybe you should contact ebay with a complaint.

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Offline Mikla

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2009, 11:05:19 AM »
Tonya, I am so sorry that this happened to you.  This type of marketing just makes me furious.  One time, I emailed an Ebay seller on principle to ask if a pink diamond they were selling as natural had been treated in any way.  It was obviously way too cheap to be real, but I wanted to see what they would say.  The response I got was, "We really don't know if it has been treated or not".  Yeah, right.  You don't know if the diamond you are selling is worth $10k or $100k but you priced it at $10k.  Not!

Mikla
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 11:07:41 AM by Mikla »
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Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2009, 01:11:35 PM »
Jen- I believe , in principle, you are 100% correct. No matter when the stone was purchased, if it was misrepresented, a refund should be issued.
I also agree ( in spades) that eBay should take action on  this type of misrepresentation- if only......

Al they care about is protecting their fees.
I believe I know the exact seller Mikla is talking about.
They advertise pink diamonds with a statement like:
"We don;t know if this stone is treated, so we can't say"
A complete load of bull****- but since it does not have anything to do with eBay getting their money, it's fine with eBay.
If I've called to report this once, I've called 20 times.


I'd also love to see a photo - and hope that it's a ring you can enjoy regardless of al this......
David
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Offline Mrs Mitchell

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2009, 02:02:29 PM »
Interesting how indifferent ebay seem to be to this. I mean, it's fraud, it's illegal and it's being done in their name. I know that listings for fake designer handbags are regularly reported to ebay and the listings are usually removed. I wonder why there is a difference? I would be mad as hell if I paid for a fake designer bag, but I'd be even less happy if I paid for a natural pink diamond and got a treated one.

Maybe we could all spend a little time reporting listings for obviously misrepresented stones, raise awareness of this problem?

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Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2009, 03:33:18 PM »
The fact is that most luxury brands have pretty deep pockets and good legal departments. The mining companies and many large cutting houses would have them too, but they'd rather keep their products sold through luxury boutiques at 300% recharge than through eBay, so they don't care. And the honest dealers are generally too small to have any leverage with eBay.

In addition, while there is pretty much an easy test for "authenticity" in a branded luxury item, be it a pair of shoes or a handbag (if the originator says it's fake or unauthorised, you have a hard time proving the contrary), it's a lot more controversial with diamonds. If IGI say it's a natural green, do you believe them? What about UJGL (Uncle Joe's Gemology Lab)?

Offline Mrs Mitchell

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2009, 03:53:09 PM »
Yes, I see your point. A diamond that screams "look at me, I've been nuked more times than Homer Simpson" to someone here might look like a natural phenomenon to the ebay legal dept. Especially with Uncle Joe's Gem Certificate.
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Offline ah2bqat

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2009, 05:10:12 PM »
 :violent4:

You're killing me, Miz M!  I can't take any more of the visuals or I'm gonna die laughing!  :giveup: :giveup: :giveup:
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Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2009, 07:09:40 PM »
The fact is that most luxury brands have pretty deep pockets and good legal departments. The mining companies and many large cutting houses would have them too, but they'd rather keep their products sold through luxury boutiques at 300% recharge than through eBay, so they don't care. And the honest dealers are generally too small to have any leverage with eBay.

In addition, while there is pretty much an easy test for "authenticity" in a branded luxury item, be it a pair of shoes or a handbag (if the originator says it's fake or unauthorised, you have a hard time proving the contrary), it's a lot more controversial with diamonds. If IGI say it's a natural green, do you believe them? What about UJGL (Uncle Joe's Gemology Lab)?

Totally to point omc.
My feeling was that eBay would feel more responsible to it's users to be more vigilant over high dollar items, such as diamonds.
Even though it's true - eBay's largest volume sellers are selling junk, using stock photos, and have multiple questionable methods of presentation. Prominently stressing that the diamonds are natural, and adding the fact they are treated somewhere on page 72

For example, eBay could have a gemologist on retainer. If there were legitimate dealers, and consumers complaining about a particular issue- such as this one- they could have a neutral trades person figure out better ways of separating the natural from the treated stones.


In 1999, and 2000 eBay did assign a top level manager to consult with me, and a number of other sellers they selected to suggest some of the categories.
They were a much easier company to deal with back then....

Actually- one of the offshoots of that is the fact eBay only recognizes the following labs ( on the drop down menu
AGS
GIA
EGL/USA
IGI
And of course, the famous "other" gem lab

I'm sure we all agree they should have stopped after GIA. But at least Uncle Joe's didn;t make the cut ( I understand the voting was 3-2)
David
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Offline Mrs Mitchell

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2009, 08:16:08 AM »
How frustrating to have gone through all of the at consultation. No doubt you put in a lot of effort, only to have the same issues as badly as ever ten years on.

Have you ever considered a career in local government? It sounds as though you have the right experience!

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Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2009, 10:15:13 AM »
It is frustrating Jen.
Over the years we've found an incredible "niche" on eBay, so leaving makes no sense at all....but seeing the things they do allow makes me wonder.

The newest wrinkle is PayPal.
Ostensibly, it sounds like a great idea.
For sellers that can't accept credit cards on their own, it makes a lot of sense.

The problem is that eBay owns PayPal- so what might have been a nice idea for the garage seller has been forced upon pretty much everyone who sells on eBay.
In fact, paying a merchant directly with a credit card ( as opposed to using PayPal) is much more advantageous to the buyer.
The credit card company is far better at protecting buyers in the event of a dispute- especially on high dollar items.
From the merchant standpoint, PayPal charges a higher rate of commission, and is a lot tougher to deal with.
But eBay has to generate as much revenue as it can....
Where's Meg Whitman when you need her??

David
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Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2009, 02:54:38 PM »
Not to mention that since you cannot avoid PayPal, if there is any trouble with the PayPal account (mine was restricted for a mistaken security alert) you are unable to pay anyone on eBay. Then it takes them ten days to sort it out, while a credit card is normally unblocked within a few hours.

Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2009, 02:57:27 PM »
Sheesh opmc- what a terrible situation!!
BUT- you would have been able to pay a seller on eBay that accepts credit cards directly.
In fact, I'll bet that many of the sellers that do accept cards directly might be willing to give the buyer back the difference that they would not have to pay paypal.
Even if it's 2%- ask! Better the money in your pocket than paypals!
David
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Offline Mrs Mitchell

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2009, 04:07:59 PM »
2% on a really high value transaction could be quite a bit of money. There must be literally thousands of transactions, big and small, every day.

The people who own paypal and ebay must be really, really rich.
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Offline jtmjjj

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2009, 06:00:49 PM »
It is noticeably pink, but pink champagne type - not the obvious nuked color.  I will try to put up pictures after I get home tonight - I would describe it as a baby pink or a blush pink.

I will keep it because I had it set in the expensive setting and the jeweler only made a $2K difference on the appraisal.  They didn't say they suspected it was treated, but they had never seen a pink diamond, let alone one over a carat.  They also said they didn't want to overvalue it because of insurance.  I'll check back later.  Thanks everyone.

Offline ah2bqat

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2009, 07:07:32 PM »
Good.  We'll look forward to seeing it, jtm.  I'm sure it's a beautiful piece.  And even if it's been treated, at that price it could still be a very good deal.  David could give you pricing on treated pinks, like he has on some treated blues, no doubt.  After all, it's still a diamond. 

There are a couple of threads that might interest you.  http://coloreddiamond.info/new-diamonds-new-jewelry/some-irradiated-diamonds-that-make-me-reconsider-my-feelings-about-them/0/ and http://coloreddiamond.info/colored-diamonds/irradiated-diamonds/msg92976/#msg92976.

 
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Offline Diamondsbylauren

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Re: appraisal for pink
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2009, 09:22:51 PM »
You've really got our interest peaked!!
I can't wait to see the pics.
David
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