Author Topic: Okay I'm pondering a question...  (Read 4310 times)

Offline sh3rry

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Okay I'm pondering a question...
« on: July 11, 2009, 10:31:57 AM »
I posted my new finding on here and there was a little debate on if the stone on my solitare is a princess cut or a radiant cut. I was wondering if that makes a differance in it's size? On the princess cut chart it would be 1.03 on the raidiant chart it's smaller in cts. Is this correct or am I getting bad info again? The diamond does have a x like shape in the middle (isn't that princess cuts?) but it also has rounded corners (radiant cut?)  :N1i'mconfusedHL: Here's the same pics I posted when there was a little curiousity about it's shape..  :yel: I'm stuck on the issue..
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 10:33:14 AM by sh3rry »
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Offline Trinkette

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 12:46:43 PM »
Sh3rry, nothing to be stuck about here... a princess is only a princess if she has squared (sharp) corners, since by definition, a princess is a "brilliant-cut square." The princess cut has been around since the 1980s and features 90-degree corners – a true square. Nowadays, the term is more loosely used to describe a host of "brilliant-cut square" diamonds that are, more, or less, close to perfectly square.

David can tell you more about the radiant cut. Short story is that  in the 1970s Mr. Grossbard patetented a rectangular brilliant with cut, or slanted, corners. He called it the radiant cut. I may be incorrect here, but, I understand the importance of the radiant is that it was the first cut design to feature brilliant-cut facets on both crown and pavilion. Again, we sling the name "radiant" around to describe a host of rectangular diamonds with slanted corners... and, since the name "radiant" was patented, we may be taking liberties here with the title "radiant," but, you get the idea...

Trinkette's Cliff Notes:
Princess = brilliant-cut square
Radiant = brilliant-cut rectangle with slanted corners

Also, the size charts can only help give you an approximation of carat weight. There are many details determining carat weight that a simple face-up size chart can not factor. Really, the only way to truly know the weight, as well as all the other aspects of a particular stone, is to have the stone unmounted and inspected by a trusted professional. And, yes, different shapes with similar face-up sizes most definitely will have different general carat weights.

Offline Trinkette

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 12:53:00 PM »
Hummm, now that I think about it, I'm remembering reading about the radiant stuff several years ago... and I'm not sure that I'm remembering accuratly about this. David, did I get this right?  :-\
 :david:


Offline GracefulLion

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 01:56:26 PM »
I am a little confused by that T.   The difference is the cut corners on the radiants, not so much square vs rectangular,  right?  I have a square radiant and while I believe square radiants are less common, they definitely exist. 

Offline Mikla

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 02:00:58 PM »
I don't know if this helps or not, but here's a diagram purporting to show the differences in cut.  Sh3rry, which table, crown and pavilion as shown below best represents the cut of your diamond?

« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 02:06:49 PM by Mikla »
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Offline oldmancoyote

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 02:11:48 PM »
Aspect ratio (square vs. rectangular) does not matter, even though the original princess cut - which has a pavillion based on the baryon cut of the 1960 - does not really work with high aspect ratios and it needs do be modified.

Offline Trinkette

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 05:13:06 PM »
GL, certainly a radiant can be a square shape because technically, a square (four equal straight sides and four right angles) is a form of rectangle (four straight sides and four right angles).

I think my overall point is that many "named" cuts begin as patented cuts, with very specific shapes, numbers of facets and facet patterns. As these cuts become popular, many cutters do similar cuts, but, do not necessarily follow the original, exact patterning of the originals. Most lay people would never detect the differences between original patented cuts and many of the "copy cuts" with their naked eyes, and the public is generally not cut-savvy enough to look for differences. So, we end up grouping very similar looking cuts as one named cut, like princess or radiant.

Mikla's diagrams show very distinct differences between princess and radiant – certainly more than just the corners.

For what it is worth, the originator of the princess cut has improved it. His new and improved princess is called the Quadrillion – but, still, the princess name has stuck and is generally the only one we hear or think about with regards to a diamond that looks to be a brilliant-cut square shape.

Perhaps all this confusion over names is why GIA uses more generic terms in their descriptions (how consistent GIA is in using these terms from stone to stone is another matter altogether...  :-* ).

Offline Trinkette

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 05:15:27 PM »
Sorry... I'm obnoxious today. I forgot this:  :1857272:


I'll be quiet now.

Offline sh3rry

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 07:49:42 PM »
Mikla Diffenatly the first one looks alot like my diamond more then the other, it just seems the corners are the only differance.

Everyone thank you for your help.. All of   :rock:
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Offline Mikla

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2009, 08:45:56 PM »
I found a patent filed in 2001 (assigned to M. Fabrikant & Sons, where David used to work) for a cut cornered Princess.



What do you think, Sh3rry?

Mikla
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 08:47:38 PM by Mikla »
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Offline sh3rry

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2009, 08:54:14 PM »
yes that's it... :yahoo: yay your good!
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Offline sh3rry

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2009, 08:56:24 PM »
I want to  give you a gift  :snicker: sorry it's a lame one :notworthy: to you.  ;D
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Offline Mikla

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2009, 09:15:54 PM »
I also found something called, "The Wondercut" but from what I read, it was only introduced recently.  Based on the square shape of the princess, it supposedly has the shape of a flower at its center.  Still, here's a shot of it, just for comparison's sake.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 09:26:13 PM by Mikla »
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Offline sh3rry

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2009, 09:28:24 PM »
If you compair that with this photo they look alike huh?
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Offline sh3rry

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2009, 09:58:03 PM »
Mikla may I ask where you found that, I just love to research diamonds.
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Offline sh3rry

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2009, 10:11:50 PM »
I think I found it.. Is this what you found?

Look into the diamond and you’ll see a flower at its core.” The Wondercut™, a new brand by special cut pioneers Lili Diamonds, makes this promise come true. Based on the square shape of the princess, the Wondercut™ offers the brilliance, fire and light return of a round stone, with a unique feature – the shape of a flower at its core.
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Offline Mikla

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2009, 11:15:38 PM »
Yes.  But that cut appears to be more popular overseas than in the US.  I would probably put my money the M. Fabrikant patented design for a modified Princess, if I had to guess what your stone was.  Do you see the angled lines of a Princess and the "X" when you look into the center of your stone?

Mikla
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 11:25:26 PM by Mikla »
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Offline sh3rry

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2009, 11:50:58 PM »
yes I did.. 
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Offline sh3rry

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Re: Okay I'm pondering a question...
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2009, 12:06:28 AM »
It says HYP in the band but I can not find anything about HYP. Mikla you seem to be good at finding things help?  :DJ:
Diamonds Rock!!!Get it hahaha....