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Author Topic: help purchasing radiant cut  (Read 2812 times)
anotherring
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« on: July 18, 2009, 09:59:59 PM »

hi-
i am considering purchasing a radiant cut diamond.  it is a GIA certified 2.06 carats G color I1.  I saw the diamond and there is a feather that is slightly noticeable if you look very closely- for an I1, I am satisfied with the clarity.  What I'm not sure about is the depth/table.  the dimensions are:
length 7.31
width 7.19
depth 5.15

I prefer a square shape, so I am happy with the 1.02 L/W ratio.
The depth is 71.6%
The table is 76%
Girdle=medium
symmetry- good
polish- very good
flourescence=none

I feel that this stone is a good value for the asking price of $6,000.  I would love to hear the thoughts of those who are more knowledgeable.
Thanks!
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2009, 10:27:01 PM »

Normally we ask about a GIA report- however $6000 is so low for a coloress 2ct radiant, I would not be surprised if there's no GIA. Have you seen the lab report? What type is it?
IN a situation like this the circumstances of sale are important.
Are you comfortable with the seller?

If you've seen the stone and like it- and you're comfortable with the seller, it sounds like it could be fine.
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David
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2009, 06:51:48 AM »

I'll add my voice to David's - $6000 is very low, even for an I1, yet it's still enough money to make one pause. Unless you know and trust the seller, I'd be wary: I'd insist on -

1. Getting the GIA report number (and ideally a photocopy of the report) - you can verify it online on GIA's site. Any discrepancy or uncertainty around this, and the deal is off

2. Get the stone and copy of the certificate to an appraiser to verify that the stone is actually a diamond, that it is the diamond represented in the report and that it has not been modified (e.g. clarity enhancement; damage) since the report was issued.

It may cost you another $100 or so, but it's well worth it.

Good luck!
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anotherring
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2009, 07:14:04 PM »

Thanks for your advice.  I do have a photocopy of the GIA report and I followed your advice and went to the GIA website- it all seems to match up.  If I do decide that this is the one, I have 30 days to return it and I will take it in to have it looked at to make sure that it is legit. 

Back to the table and depth... does the low cost make up for the fact that the cut isn't ideal?  What effect do these measurements have on the diamond?  I looked at this diamond in comparison to about 8 others and really liked the color- the size doesn't hurt either!

Thanks again!
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2009, 02:40:22 PM »

HI anotherring,
Did you see the stone in person?

omc and I agree on a lot of things- although his post did bring up some issues.

Mainly the part about the appraiser.
Not that I have anything against appraisers...however there have been many cases where something being offered was "too good to be true"
We don't know that's the case here- but the low price tells us a lot.

One possibility I hate to raise- however it's there- is that the low price indicates some intrinsic problem with the seller, or diamond.
If there's a problem with the seller, an appraiser can't really help.
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 03:33:12 PM »

David - I won't argue beyond this post, but would you please tell me exactly where you disagree with my recommendation that someone who does not have a vested interest in selling another stone tell anotherring whether the stone is a diamond, whether it's the diamond graded by GIA, and whether the diamond has been altered in any way since the GIA report was issued?

(In fact, I'd add on whether the diamond has any likely durability problems given the I1)
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 03:48:23 PM »

Sure OMC!

There are a number of reasons I hesitate to recommend an appraiser in this type of situation.
First is the reason I mentioned:  if there's any doubt about the seller, an appraiser can not fix the problem or cause a bad seller to live to their word.

Second is that there are many businesses simply hanging out a shingle, and calling them self an "Appraiser".
In many cases these sub standard appraisers do a lot of damage.
Either by telling someone their ring is worth much more than it's actually worth- or in some cases, knocking a purchase with no basis in truth.

We've seen both of these in the past week- so maybe I'm a bit jaded.....

Some moron "appraiser" actually told a consumer to "throw away that Y-Z GIA report, it does not mean anything".
In another example, a stone which should sell for $25k was appraised at $80k.
Maybe it's because we sell a lot of unusual diamonds, but we've encountered many people calling themselves appraisers who were simply not qualified.

But the bottom line remains that the first order of business is making sure the seller is honest, and legit. If that step was not properly completed, the appraiser, no matter how good they are- can't help.
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 04:12:01 PM »

Thanks for your advice.  I do have a photocopy of the GIA report and I followed your advice and went to the GIA website- it all seems to match up.  If I do decide that this is the one, I have 30 days to return it and I will take it in to have it looked at to make sure that it is legit. 

Back to the table and depth... does the low cost make up for the fact that the cut isn't ideal?  What effect do these measurements have on the diamond?  I looked at this diamond in comparison to about 8 others and really liked the color- the size doesn't hurt either!

Thanks again!


Hi anotherring- as far as this part of your question: There is no agreed upon radiant cut called "Ideal".
Of course that does not stop sellers from calling Radiant Cut Diamonds "Ideal"- however in doing so, such sellers are sending a signal- either they don;t know what an "Ideal" cut diamond is, or they have no hesitation abusing the term.


As far as the specs you posted: It's not possible to really answer how the diamond will look based on the specs.
The people who claim to be able to grade a diamond based on table and depth would probably say the table is too large.
Generally, Fancy Colored Radiant cuts can have tables in the high '70's and still look good- if we were going to judge this stone on the numbers, the table would be one aspect I'd look at.
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2009, 06:29:14 PM »

I just wanted to add: omc's advice is extremely well thought out.
It makes a lot of sense.

AS a seller, we're bound by a different set of rules.
A hard part for me is that I do know of some competant appraisers- however if a seller reccomends an appraiser, it totally invalidates the appraiser- as there's an appearance of association. Even if the appraiser is totally competant and honest.
On the other hand, say we know someone is incompetant.
If a client said
" I'm taking this over to &^% appraisers" and we know they don't know their ass from their elbow, we can't say that either.


There's no question appraisers get a lot of work due to the internet jewelry sales business.
There are cases where the seller ships directly to the appraiser.
Of course those are generally the type of purchases made off one of the sites selling diamonds off a list.



To me, it comes down to this: If you can't trust the seller, don't buy.
No appraiser can help that part.

If a deal seems too good to be true, it rasies red flags for me- again- an appraiser can't help in that case.
Of course we don't know that's the case here......
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anotherring
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2009, 07:53:52 PM »

Thanks everyone for your input.  So, the situation is that I was totally screwed over by the largest family jeweler in the state where I live.  The store grades their own diamonds- several years after we purchased my engagement ring, another jeweler told me there was a GIA report number for my diamond (he saw the # lasered on the diamond.)  He pulled the report for me and it didn't match up at all to the report that I was given initally.  So, I'm not in the process of picking out a new ring.  I've been trying to do more research this time.  I found an internet retailer and met up with him while I was on vacation.  He showed my about 8-10 diamonds that varied in color, size, cut, and clarity.  (I'm having a hard time deciding on cut- I like them all  Wink )  Although there was a 1.8 carat cushion that I preferred, the cost was out of my league.  The stone that I liked second best, the radiant in question, was one of the least expensive due to the fact that it is an I1.  I searched around the internet and actually found the same diamond listed by another internet seller for a little less.  The second website is one that seems to come highly recommended by other internet shoppers.  I would prefer to do business with the first website if he will match the price, as I thought he was great and I get to the city where he operates a few times a year.

So, if I do purchase this diamond and take it to an appraiser, the appraiser will be in a totally different state from where it is purchased from.  I do understand that some appraisers don't know what they are talking about- I had a friend send her diamond back to the GIA to get re-graded based on an appraiser's opinion and it turned out that the diamond had dirt on it!

What is the best way to find a quality appraiser, because if I purchase any diamond on the internet, I want to have it checked out before I put it in a setting.

Thanks again- I checked with the BBB and there are no complaints against this website.  I actually really like the guy that I met with.  Is there anywhere else that I can check to see if there are complaints?

You are all so kind! 
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ah2bqat
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2009, 09:04:32 PM »

Hi anotherring.  I have a third option you might want to consider and I know David won't say a word.  You might want to contact him by e-mail with whatever stats and specs you have on that favorite cushion and the radiant that interests you.  See if David can find something you like for the price you can afford.  He does good picture!

I spent the better part of 6 months participating in the forum before I placed my first order with DBL.  It was a tiny one, but I left the choice of stones completely in his hands.  That left him room to find three little white (G color) rounds that have incredible sparkle, no flaws that I can see with them in their settings, and an almost miraculously low price  due to the low clarity.  Trust me in this, anotherring, David's SI2 in white diamonds is much cleaner to the eye than many VS1 from another dealer.  And he won't ever show you a stone with less than a radical sparkle factor.

You've met oldmancoyote.  Check out the Coyote's Den thread and look at the caliber of jewels he and his DW collect.  It's unbelievable.  He goes to David, here, when he wants to have something unique designed and executed.  Then look at some of the other collections and see what came from DBL. 

Take your research one step further and see what DBL can do for you.  You've got nothing to lose and might find you've found that 'safe' place on the internet to buy high quality diamonds and have access to designers and technicians that can create a unique piece just for you.  All with the assurrance that a USA GIA certificate can give a diamond.  DBL does sell a few diamonds without them, when the stones are very small like my three little pigs; or a diamond has a different certificate such as EGL, which he will regrade (generally in the downward direction to the benefit of his clientele).
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2009, 11:00:22 PM »

Aw shucks, I'm blushing ah2bqat!

In fact it's true that we can get many of the diamonds that appear on the lists you have shopped anotherring.
Also a shame that you had a bad experience locally.....

If you liked the seller you met and saw and liked the diamond, and are comfortable with the seller, it sounds fine.

If you are comfortable with the seller and diamond, all due respect- but why would you want to take it to an appraiser?

I ask because, again- if you have any doubts that everything is above board, don;t proceed.
If it is a I1 G color diamond, the price is within reason- no red flags there.

I can comment on our experience, because our company is in exactly the business you are taking about- Internet diamond selling.
We have found that people who will buy our diamonds do so because we prove a high degree of information about the item- and have a long track record on the internet.
I'm not saying no one ever buys from us and takes it to an appraiser- of course some must.
However I think a large percentage of people that are comfortable with the seller of an item would not necessarily have it appraised as a matter of course.

The bottom line comes down to having to trust the seller- unfortunately you already had a bad experience so.....maybe that's a tough one for you.....
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David
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jewelcrazy
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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2009, 12:56:04 PM »

I'd have to agree, contacting David at DBL would be a good idea.  I discovered him and DBL while lurking on an other diamond forum where he used to post.  I got a feel for how he does business and felt I could trust him to do business with.  He then started the forum on DBL, I again lurked and saw how many had good experiences and felt even better about the process.  My husband bought me a significant diamond three stone ring for a significant b-day (I'll never tell!), and there was no way I would get the size I wanted if we went retail, hence my internet vendor search.  David found 4 stones for me to choose from and I picked the one I wanted in person while on a trip to New York.  He chose the side stones, and had the setting made.  It was then shipped out to us.  I couldn't be happier.  At least for me, if it is a diamond, or any other type of stone he would carry, I wouldn't go to anyone else.

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