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Author Topic: Girdle  (Read 3759 times)
ezellad
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« on: August 28, 2008, 01:40:09 PM »

What exactly is girdle? I think I understand table size, etc. but girdle baffles me...is there an easy way to communicate this?
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Amber Dee
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2008, 01:55:27 PM »

The girdle is the dividing line between the top, and the bottom of the diamond.

Here's a high tech diagram to give you the idea.

BTW- there's a lot of confusion about gridles and cutlets.
Diamonds have girdles, and culets, while gridles and cutlets are best in the kitchen.....


* girdle.JPG (5.12 KB, 500x255 - viewed 132 times.)
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2008, 02:14:37 PM »

Of course, you can always use the gridle to cook the cutlet, together with the (finely cut) carrots.
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ezellad
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 02:36:58 PM »

hahaha...love that!

so, does thick girdle mean the diamond may be less brilliant? or what is the difference between thin, thick, etc.?
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Amber Dee
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2008, 02:48:31 PM »

This is the type of question that simply has no "set answer"
Going back to a lot of the BS passed off as "buying guides for diamonds" I've seen on the web- many places seem to make concrete statements about girdle thickness which are simply not true.

It's like asking- if a man weighe 200 pounds, is he overweight?
Well, if he's 4'11", than he might be- if he's 6'11" he might be skinny at that weight-.
You have to consider many factors....
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ezellad
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2008, 03:10:09 PM »

gotcha...so is it sortof like, if the table size and depth are in line, then a very thick girdle might not be a bad thing?
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Amber Dee
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 03:17:08 PM »

Actually not at all!

If we believe we can tell something from these numbers, we'd be buying into what these BS tables promise. Hook, line and sinker.
What I'm saying is that you can not judge a diamond based on measurements.

We didn't even get into esoteric differences...like polished versus faceted, versus bruted girdles- or even the shape of the diamond.
Even if we did, we'd still need to observe the diamond to make judgements....
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 03:32:23 PM »

The only caveat I would add is that a thick girdle will add weight which is not translated in "face" size, since it is effectively only adding to the vertical dimension of the diamond, which you normally don't see

If this is done solely to keep a diamond over a critical size (typically multiples of 0.5ct), it is generally not a good sign for the quality of the cut.

In a coloured stone, however, it may add colour intensity (precisely because it makes the stone more deep), so it's not a one-way street.

Assessing the effect that girdle thickness and form will have on a stone's optics is not at all simple; if you are interested, take a look at the GIA site and search for "painted girdle"...
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ezellad
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 03:45:33 PM »

ok, i think i will leave this to the experts!

thank you though...the information provided was very helpful!
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Amber Dee
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2008, 04:15:11 PM »

The only caveat I would add is that a thick girdle will add weight which is not translated in "face" size, since it is effectively only adding to the vertical dimension of the diamond, which you normally don't see


Actually, this is only true if we are considering Round diamonds- even then I hesitate to make blanket statements...

Many fancy shapes have thick girdles having less to do with weight retention, and more to do with finsihing a stone with the proper shape and sparkle..... there are extremely well cut radiant diamonds, for example, with lower depths, and thick girdles.
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Princess
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2008, 05:42:33 PM »

Is it true however, in any case, that a very thin girdle does pose a greater risk of chipping if hit at the right angle?
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 06:35:13 PM »

Hi Princess,
it is just more of the same!

Any diamond, if hit on the right plane, with the right pressure can chip.

It would be true to say that a prong on a very thin girdle might pose more risk than a prong on a medium girdle.
BUT- there are cases where a GIA report calls a girdle "Very Thin -Medium", for example.
If this happens to be a Radiant cut diamond, the "Very Thin" area might not be where a prong would reside, and might pose no real risk at all......


The bottom line continues to be: Visual inspection is necessary to properly judge any aspect of a diamond's cut.
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2008, 02:57:36 AM »

Well, found this... pearl of a typo on a coloured gemstones forum. Not quite relevant to the discussion, but it was too good not to share it.

If you are looking for a truly rare stone, how about a dementoid garnet?

Kind retards and Merry Christmas to all!
(as a colleague of mine once closed an email)
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Trinkette
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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2008, 08:41:13 AM »

Dear OMC,
I love demented garnets.
Kindest Retards and Pest Wishes for the Holidays!
Trinkette  angel
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ah2bqat
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« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2009, 07:28:01 PM »

rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

I love you guys.  You have absolutely no compunction about using horrible puns.

Happy Nude Deer to all, and to all a good fight.
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Auntie Dammit Heart DBL!
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2009, 04:04:59 PM »

To return to the subject of girdles, if I may -

I have seen a fair bit of discussion about this elsewhere (hope that's ok to say!) and it's really piqued my curiosity.

David, can you tell me about the impact of different girdle treatments on the overall look of a stone?
I'm thinking about OMCs and OECs which I know won't have faceted girdles (right?) but I'm also curious about modern cuts. Do they generally have faceted girdles, or does it vary?

I'm also getting a sense that while developments are often related to improvements in technology, some of it might be linked to 'fashions' too. (I know that in my job, ideas come and go - is it the same for diamond cutters?)

Finally, you've mentioned Sam Spade a few times- he's been cutting diamonds for a very, very long time, right? Would he consider posting here maybe? Sharing anecdotes, technical information, interesting facts etc? See, I have a theory that you can extrapolate the history of any society from the history of its jewellery (but then, I have just had my first glass of wine in many, many months hehehe). It would be amazing to hear from someone who has lived through a lot of diamond trade history as an insider.

Jen
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2009, 04:19:54 PM »

Here, Miz M.  Have another glass of wine.  Great idea!  Sam Spade's Bedtime Tales of Sparklier Times .
 If I was closer, I'd volunteer to take down verbal history and present it for him.  Undecided   

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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2009, 04:26:59 PM »

He sounds like an amazing, knowledgeable man. I'd love to meet him actually, but e-tales would be the next best thing!

Actually, I remember seeing a ring on David's site a while ago which Sam had made for his wife (I think). It was a ballerina ring and I'd never seen anything like it before. It was a work of art and it must have taken many, many hours of complicated work to make. It sort of made me think that he must be an amazing man (with a very, very lucky wife!).

Jen
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2009, 04:43:56 PM »

HI All!

Jen- I ike the way you think!
Any conversation can be nicer if you're not forced to watch out for strangers bearing gifts ( or knives)...heheheh

In terms of Sam- If only the guy knew how to use a computer - in fact he doesn't even use the word "computer"

if I have one of his stones he'll ask- "Did you put it on the machine"
( translated- is it on the site?)

But he's really been a great friend for many years.
I don't like to call him after ...say 8pm, but i can't tell you how many times I've called him at home to answer a question.
I also like the way you are thinking about jewelry- and it's use to gauge society Jen!

Sam started cutting diamonds before WWII. He served during the war and resumed cutting for a while afterwards.
The question about Girdles involved a discussion of the three main type of girdles.
1) "Bruted" which is a girdle that looks frosted- like a mirror after you come out of the shower
2) Polished- where the entire girdle is shiny
3) Faceted- also shiny, but on a faceted girdle there's little demarcations all that way around- facets. The polished girdle is smooth all the way around


Sam was mentioning how Willie Goldberg was at the forefront of the faceted girdle, in the 1950's

All modern stones have faceted girdles.

There's different schools of though on the effects of the girdle.
For example- on fancy colors it's believed a faceted girdle increases any natural body color- making a yellow diamond yellower ( as compared to a bruted Girdle)

But this seemingly contradicts the fact that D-E and F color diamonds generally have faceted girdles- and it's though to make them brighter ( by some, there's really no industry consensus)
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Mrs Mitchell
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2009, 04:58:08 PM »

I love that - did you put it on the machine? Just the right mix of wonder and suspicion!  laugh Reminds me of my grandmother. She knew that she could talk to us all by email and she knew in theory how it worked, but she thought we could see her when she typed. She was probably the same generation as your friend Sam, from what you've said.

I'm sorry he can't join us here (but you could always tell him how much we'd like him to come and talk to us). I hope his life / work history can be recorded because he's been around as a professional working with the older styles of cutting and in the formative years and stages of modern cuts and the social / technical changes that they represent. Fascinating stuff.

I didn't realise there was a difference between faceted and polished girdles. Interesting paradox too - if a girdle treatment can enhance body colour at one end of the spectrum, how can it reduce it at the other? Is it the difference between art and science, maybe? Kind of like, I have a friend with a PhD in chemistry who is the worst cook in the world because she insists on applying the principles of science to the art of cooking. Stuff that should work doesn't for her and stuff that shouldn't work does for her brother who is a chef.

Please excuse my ignorance here, but I don't know of Willie Goldberg. I'll do a google search, but it isn't a name I've heard.

Jen
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jennifer@diamondsbylauren.com
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2009, 05:20:20 PM »

David,
Don't you have software that recognizes speech so that typing isn't necessary?
It would be so cool, if Sam Spade had his own thread that he narrated for us.
 
Can you do this?   N1Please2HL1
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2009, 05:23:50 PM »

You never heard of William Goldberg and we somehow let you onto this forum??
WM- FIX THIS!!!
hehehe


Seriously.... William Goldberg was a very ostentatious guy, and one of the pioneers in the modern diamond business. He specialized in million dollar pieces.
He passed away a few years back
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David
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Mrs Mitchell
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2009, 05:27:46 PM »

Ok, before I have to renounce my CDI membership, I'll do that google search! Grin

I live in a small village. We have turf cutters and railway cutters but the world of diamond cutters isn't all that familiar...

I'll go look!

Jen
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2009, 05:31:43 PM »

Ok, I just did a very quick search. 
Stunning pieces!
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