The Healthy/Organic/Green Thread

[diamondjunkie]

Yes, yes.  I am sure you will all start calling this The HOG thread.  So be it!  As long as it gets people talking and, most importantly, thinking.

I thought it would be a good place to share knowledge and ideas as far as healthy alternatives to foods, cleaners, plastic food containers, etc.  We have some tremendously green-smart folks here and I know we could all learn a lot if we pool all that knowledge.  I also thought this would be a great complement thread to the weightloss discussion.

I gotta say, I don't consider myself a 'green' person.  Well, I didn't until about a month ago when I read a book a friend recommended.........now there's no stopping me.  I recommend the book to any and all of you.  I found it quite eye opening.  Here it is:



http://www.amazon.co...219417161&sr=8-1

Then I read another book which cemented a lot of the first:



http://www.amazon.co...219417221&sr=1-1

Needless to say, I've been running around changing a lot of the products in the house and rethinking what I feed the kids and how I package it.  There is a lot of info to take in and I don't want to rabbit on too much.  I'll share bits and pieces over the next few days but for now I just want to say I highly recommend the books.

Feel free to share your thoughts and tell us what you do to reduce your exposure to environmental toxins and pollutants - I am all ears!

[diamondjunkie]

Oh, just an addition to the economy thread where we talked about how to cut back with the economy slowdown: many of us talked about switching from bottled water to tap.  That is definitely happening after reading these books!  BUT.  What you need to do is filter your water - even the stuff you would put into a pan to boil.  I already have a water filter here at home that I haven't used in donkeys years.  I'm off to buy new filters tomorrow.

Also, do not use plastic bottles to take water with you.  SIGG has been overrun for people scrambling to get one of their bottles.  I know because they are very difficult to get hold of now. They have had to stop supplying many internet sellers because the demand has been so overwhelming.  I managed to find some on Amazon today and I bought one for each of my family members.  They are the only bottles tested to prove 0% contamination from the aluminium or inner coating.

I know.  I'm rambling.  And I haven't even really started!   

[annie1]

I'll let DJ speak to things you put in your mouth or hold the food you eat, but for general consumer products, my saying is, "the greenest thing out there is the thing you already own."

I see people walking out of stores all the time with $50 organic cotton T-shirts that say "Live Green" or something.  I am 99.9% certain that all of those people have perfectly usable t-shirts sitting in their closet at home. 

The t-shirt at home is a sunk environmental cost.  It has already been made and moved.  Just because something is "green" doesn't mean that the raw materials don't need to be harvested, the item doesn't need to be produced, and it doesn't need to be transported to the store. 

The same goes for cars.  Is there a large fuel savings to be had in switching to a hybrid vehicle?  Yep.  However, the truly "green" thing is nearly always to drive the vehicle you currently have until you absolutely can no longer do so.  Think about the amount of energy and natural resources it takes to create and transport a new vehicle - a TON.  What if a person feels like buying a hybrid?  Ok, that’s cool.  The thing that gets me is people who say they bought it to be good to the environment, when in reality, they bought it because they wanted it.  There’s nothing wrong with wanting something new, I want new things all the time, but call it what it is.  

I know someone who has a collection of probably over 50 cloth grocery bags.  The irony is not lost on me.

I want to make it clear that I have nothing against hybrids or green products.  They’re great, and we need to develop the new technologies.  If a person is going to buy something new anyway, then I think it’s great to buy “green.”  I am far from perfect on this front, but I do try to really think before I bring a new thing into my life!

[Awestruck]

I don`t like calling it a " green " issue because to me it should simply be a lifestyle thing which affects all of us, our families, our pockets and our environment. The World shouldn`t be split into 2 camps ie. those who do, or those who don`t ,because we all share the same World don`t we ?
I feel a lot of damage has been done by radicals who preach or lambast when all it really takes is a bit of common sense and a few well informed choices to be " green-er ". Fair power to those who go the whole hog and live barefooted on a river boat, peddle cycling their electricity, breeding their own chickens and using carbolic soap for everything but let`s face it, the majority of us don`t have the time nor the inclinaion for such a lifestyle.
We all know our children and grandchildren will copy everything we do and yet they may not have the resources nor the finances to afford those resources ( the way prices are rocketing ! ) or they may not live long enough to enjoy a ripe old age because of the way we live now.
There`s a lot we can do without even thinking and for a whole bunch of well educated so called intelligent people, we sure as hell fall hook, line and sinker for the advertising or fashion hype we see on TV, in magazines and in the high street stores.
Why use another half a dozen plastic carrier bags this week when you used half a dozen last week and they`re sitting at home in a drawer ? Why buy or cook so much food that we regularly throw it in the bin or down the waste disposal ? Why leave on every light in the house when we`re sitting in just one room ? Why have the air con or the heating on so high that we`re either putting on or taking off more clothes ? Why wash clothes at a higher temperature when they`re rarely ever so badly soiled ? Why buy iradiated fruit and veg from a supermarket when we can buy fresh from a local farmers market and help local economy in the process ? Why drive half a mile and yet pay umpteen dollars a month for a gym membership when if we walked wherever we can, it would keep us just as fit ? Why buy toilet tissue, paper hankerchiefs, notepads or copier paper when for just a few pence more you can buy recycled paper just as good ? The list of " whys " are endless ...
One of the biggest " why`s " has got to be why we fill our bodies with so many chemicals when we really don`t have to ? The average woman uses 175 different chemicals per day via her cosmetics and her toiletries and that isn`t counting anything she may eat, drink or use around the home. We teach our sons and daughters to do the same, we fill our homes with these jars, bottles, sprays and packages and yet good, chemical free, safer alternatives are there for everybody and at a price we can all afford.
Maybe we`re brainwashed into thinking unless it`s endorsed by a celebrity it isn`t any good, unless it gets a 2 page spread in a glossy magazine it isn`t worthy or unless it costs an arm and a leg or comes in a fancy box and sold in a high street store, then it simply won`t work.
Maybe people envisage the other options to be boring, nasty smelling or useless but they`d be wrong, very wrong. They`re there, have a look, have a try and ask yourself do you want your daughter growing up using 175 chemicals a day for the rest of her life and her children and childrens children doing the same ?
That isn`t being "green " or on a bandwagon or faddish or preaching, that`s simply being a Mom and wanting our kids not to suffer reactions, illnesses, sensitivities or to die younger.
We have the wonder of the internet at our fingertips so search out the alternatives and enjoy having them. They`re just as great as the hyped up ones, honestly.
Lynne

[jewellk]

We all know our children and grandchildren will copy everything we do

Very good point!

I grew up with what we loving called a "wheat freak" (my Mom). We had nothing but farm raised beef and chicken, I thought spaghetti was green and was soo grossed out the first time I saw white spaghetti at a restaurant (looked like a plate full of maggots topped off with blood!!), made her own crackers, bread, peanut butter, yogurt, grew her own bean sprouts...the list goes on and on and on...

While as a child I was sometime embarrassed by my mom serving me and my friends whole wheat pizza with toppings such as chicken, spinach, and broccoli (she was waaay ahead of her time doing that in KY in 1978!!!!), I LOVE that stuff now and find myself doing the same for my daughter today. I'm happy to say, Parker loves her veggies and gobbles them down with a huge smile on her face and typically asks for more.

Also, we grew up out in the country where we had to deal with our own trash ourselves. No magic trash guys appeared once a week to take it away for us. We learned to recycle and try to minimize what we throw away. Has anyone ever seen a real trash dump, not just in pictures? Its a sobering and scary sight. I've recycled since I can remember, sometimes saving my cans, paper, plastic and glass for a month, then driving it 30+ miles to the nearest recycling center.

It's all about choices. I'm just glad more people are now choosing to think about the consequences of what they consume, whether it be food or other products.

The GREAT BIG GREEN BANDWAGON has room for everyone and I welcome as many people as possible to hop on board!!!

 

[GracefulLion]

I think we need to be very careful with the preachiness/critique level here.  We all do what we can do and for the reasons we can do it.  I, for one, just got a new hybrid.  Yes, because I wanted it, but also for very real reasons of trying to do less damage to the environment and trying to reduce oil consu,ption for political reasons.  I could have stayed with my old car for years, but I have had 10 year old cars before, and with two children (and probably even without) I have no desire to deal with broken fan belts or other near disasters on the freeway, especially as I am about to begin a 2 hr daily drive to my son's school.  I also could have just picked a closer school, but there was none in our area that suited our particular needs, which are real and important to us.

I do my best and take small steps, and I think we need to make suggestions and point out issues that may be counter intuitive and helpful without being hurtful.

Just MHO.

[diamondjunkie]

Well this thread has certainly ignited some passion - WOOT!

Annie, I agree with you to an extent.  I do understand what you are saying.  I am doing what I can to replace things I have used for more environmentally kind products.  However, things like shampoo, make-up, bath gel, etc. I have been throwing away and buying new, purely because I know it is not good for either myself or my children.  If there is something in the house with pthalates in it or parabens for example, I'm going to throw it rather than allow that stuff to seep into the bodies of those I love most.  But everything needs to be thought out for sure.  I wouldn't buy a new car before I needed it but that's just me.  There are many other things I WOULD buy when others would say I don't technically NEED it.  I think everyone has to do what feels right to them.

Lynne, I am so glad to see you posting!  You are so smart on natural products and I would value your opinion greatly.  Folks, I asked Lynne for some recommendations on natural products and she gave me so much more info that I thought.  She spent quite some time to make sure I was well informed and I am so thankful for the help.  Thanks Hon!  I tell you, all those chemicals are my main bone of contention at the moment.  I'm working hard to get that number way, way down.  

Jewellk, that is so great to have had a mom like that!  I grew up in England and the food was often heavy - lots of meat and lots of frying.  I still miss the smell of bacon frying on a Sunday morning when my mum would make bacon butties..........oh dear lord I need to forget about it!  She was raised on a farm so good, rib-sticking meals were exactly what she cooked up but, later, it was so easy to get side-tracked by the easy foods in the supermarket.  For some reason, I've mostly avoided that.  I am so glad you are following in your mom's footsteps!  I bet she is really proud of you.

Hey GL, I hear you too.  I don't think anyone meant to come across as preachy.  I, for one, didn't realize just how passionate the members would be about this subject.  I'm sorry if I've said anything to offend you - I really haven't meant to.  I know that everyone here will have a different take on this and I hope we can all share what we do to help ourselves and/or the environment in regards to pollution but I also hope that everyone knows that no-one is right or wrong here.  We are all going to be of differing positions on this.  I'd just love to hear of recommendations for products or if someone is particularly knowledgeable in one area or another.  I think it would be a huge benefit to pool our knowledge here.  WTG on the hybrid by the way!  I'd love to know what you think of it.  DH and I have been discussing them.

I went out and bought 2 Brita water filters today - one for DH to take down to Germany with him through the week.  Once the SIGG bottles come in, we will be down with plastic leaching bottles forever - which is great in 2 ways: 1) we're not ingesting chemicals from the plastic and 2) we're not dumping several dozen plastic bottles at the recycling plant every week.  I'm quite chuffed with myself.

My next objective, is to find somewhere that sells organic meat.......wish I spoke Dutch........

[cherrypie]

My next objective, is to find somewhere that sells organic meat.......wish I spoke Dutch........

Well, I hope you've got deep pockets, DJ - my BIL works in an organic butchers and the meat costs an arm and a leg! 

My gripe about "green" and "ethical" products is that they are so expensive.  Also, ethical clothing doesn't tend to come in larger sizes.

With regard to food, on occasion I've bought organic veg and found it to be tasteless compared to that grown with chemicals etc.  The same applies to Fairtrade goods, the taste and quality leave a lot to be desired.  On the other hand, we buy Waitrose Hampshire Free Range pork and it's tender and tasty.  Meat is the one thing that you can really taste the difference in.

Carol   

[robin]

I am trying hard to follow Annie's example and buy fewer things.  I have significantly less income than I did a couple of months ago, so that sure helps  .

I am having mixed results.  Clothes for work: wearing what I have. I bought one new pair of pants recently, and that's the only new thing in months.  Clothes for the gym: I just bought a big pile of new ones.  Shoes: I had been doing REALLY well until I found an amazing sale online.  I bought five pair of boots.  Five.

I do go to the gym instead of just walking for exercise; unfortunately, the U.S. suburbs are not set up for walking (or cycling) safely from place to place.  However, my gym is on the same campus where I work, so I often just walk to the gym from my office.  

DH and I both live in the same town we work in.  I commute about three miles each way (sometimes twice, if I come home midday to let the dogs out then go back to office or gym), and DH commutes about five or six miles each way.

My minivan is four years old.  The first year I owned it, I put 24K miles on.  Last year, I put about 15K miles on.  This year will probably be still less, unless I begin driving to dog shows again.

I no longer buy bottled water at all.  We have a filter on our fridge.  I use a camelbak plastic bottle which I love.  I have heard that the Sigg bottles are safer....

I do need to figure out-- we buy lots of diet coke (I know, I know).  We usually buy cans.  Occasionally we buy two-liters.  Given that all the packaging (cardboard and aluminum for cans, plastic for two-liters) will be recycled, which packaging is better?  Does anyone know?

[Awestruck]

Cherry
You`re in the UK aren`t you ? I also found the branded chemical free household products and cosmetics/skincare etc quite expensive but over the years I`ve found smaller companies who make their own stuff and sell much much cheaper.
If you send me a PM then I`ll give you some of their websites if you want them.
Lynne

[annie1]

Annie, I agree with you to an extent.  I do understand what you are saying.  I am doing what I can to replace things I have used for more environmentally kind products.  However, things like shampoo, make-up, bath gel, etc. I have been throwing away and buying new, purely because I know it is not good for either myself or my children.  If there is something in the house with pthalates in it or parabens for example, I'm going to throw it rather than allow that stuff to seep into the bodies of those I love most.  But everything needs to be thought out for sure.  I wouldn't buy a new car before I needed it but that's just me.  There are many other things I WOULD buy when others would say I don't technically NEED it.  I think everyone has to do what feels right to them.

DJ - I completely agree with you.  For things you put on or in your body, there's no time like the present.

GL - I honestly don't mean to offend or critique, and I'm sorry it came across that way.  I hope you come back to the thread.  Everyone makes choices in their lives for a complex web of reasons.  You needed a new car so that you and your children can feel safe during a long commute.  I don't think there is a monetary or environmental price you can put on that.

I tried to use a vehicle as a general example of my feelings since they're physically large and easy to get your mind around, but I probably should have picked an item that has fewer emotions tied to it.

[diamondjunkie]

My next objective, is to find somewhere that sells organic meat.......wish I spoke Dutch........

Well, I hope you've got deep pockets, DJ - my BIL works in an organic butchers and the meat costs an arm and a leg! 

Meat is the one thing that you can really taste the difference in.

Oh I just know it's going to cost me more than normal - even if it's only because I'll have to buy it on the economy!  I know that I'll feel better though.  I'd rather the meat we're eating is free of hormones and other nasty stuff.  Darn!  I guess I'm going to have to step up my cooking skills too!  Argh!

Robin, I wish that was all I drove.  We've had our car a little over 2 years and it already has 60k miles on it.  I was driving the kids to and from school every day which meant 2 50 minute round trip journeys 5 days a week.  Now, I am letting them ride the bus but even then I have to drive them to the nearest bus stop.  Still, 2 20 minute journeys is a vast improvement.  Now I have to train myself to stay home more!  I have heard the Camelbak's leach but you'd need to google it.  Haven't a clue which is better as far as recycling (would love to hear if anyone is up to speed with that) but I would really like to find out if the aluminum leaches into the soda - especially as it's acidic.  Hadn't thought of that............I should do some research...........anyone know?

Annie: 

[GracefulLion]

Sorry for getting bothered, but I just think we need to applaud whatever steps anyone takes, rather than question people's reasons.  Even if someone is only buying an organic t-shirt because it is trendy, try thinking of this way:  they probably would have bought some other trendy item of clothing instead.  At least this way it is a positive.  Also, that person probably didn't think it through the way you did Annie.  It is quite a smart observation, so pointing it out kindly would probably be more helpful than putting down the initial, well intended thought of the buyer.  DH and I did struggle with the idea of keeping my old hybrid when the lease was up vs getting a new one, but in the end we just needed more room and felt better about the warranty on a new car.  At the end of this lease we will likely buy it though.   

I am definitely struggling with the water bottle thing.  I stopped buying them for awhile and was just going to drink tap water in glasses, but I found I just stopped drinking.  I need to find one of those Sigg bottles.  I keep meaning to and forget.  Also need to get a Brita.  I used one for a long time and then stopped one day.  Don't remember why.  I have to go to Target tomorrow, so hopefully I will remember to pick one up!

On another happy note, DH actually remembered to recycle a box yesterday!  I usually go grumpily digging cardboard and aluminum out of the trash after him, but last night I found a box of his in the recycling.  Could be he was too lazy to open the trash compactor, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt!

[jewellk]

I hope I didn't come across as preachy, I certainly did not intend to offend anyone. I admit, I was tooting my own horn a little bit (toot toot) but after years of being ridiculed because I wore hand-me-down, handmade, or second-hand clothes from goodwill, being called a hippie when I really found that offensive (no offense to anyone out there who does consider themselves a hippie), and being laughed at when I would walk down the street picking up other people's trash, I'm finding it hard to keep quiet when lots of other people are now doing the same or similar things. I don't feel so ostracized anymore, and I'm very happy about the awareness I see around me now.

I'm still not sure if I said that right, I think my brain is fried b/c I took the PCAT this morning! 

So, again, I do apologize if I offended anyone. GL, I would love to hear your experiences with your hybrid! DH and I are saving for our next car. We both drive older vehicles and we've gotten used to no car payment so we are saving up to pay cash for our next car, which we hope to be a hybrid or a veggie. We also want to find one larger to accomodate our family.

DJ, although my Mother was the wheat freak, her mother cooked everything in lard, including the best biscuits and beans I've ever tasted in my life! I would never dream of cooking in that manner on a daily basis where we live now (an old suburb of the city) but I suppose we needed those extra calories out on the farm.

So, on to other topics and ideas...DH and I are composting (which our neighbors are not so sure about), we have rain barrels (another eyebrow-raising project), and we're researching solar roof or live roof systems b/c we will need to replace the roof on our house in the next 3 or so years. Any ideas or experience on those fronts will be greatly appreciated!!!



 

[Diamondluvr]

What an interesting thread

I love to hear how others are living, it gives me lots of great ideas!

My hubby and I 'go in' with my family each year and buy hormone free, antibiotic free-organically raised animals from local farmers, not only does it support the local economy-but we get great tasting and healthy meat.  (chickens are the toughest to find)  I wouldn't go back, you can taste the difference

We try to buy organic when possible, we live in a small town with few options so that sometimes can be tough.  I make my own juices(fruit and veggie), nut butters, bread, ice cream(the worst is trying to find decent gluten free bread recipes now---ugh!!!  Most are terrible).  I am open to try pretty much anything, but some things are just awful tasting 

I too am peeved at how much organic food costs, I know its much more labor intensive---but $8.00 for a little box of crackers is rediculess!

We have a fantastic recycling center, which surprised me when we moved here.   

I too would be interested in more info on solar power, as we will need a new roof soon.  Also, more info on good water purifiers-since we now have well water!  Our old purifier worked great, but got cracked in the move-so now are in the market for a new one.  The one we got a quote for was $2,300 for just one faucet!!!