Help, I've fallen and I don't want to dance any more!

[ah2bqat]

Hi Guys,

There has been so much good information on the diet thread, and help for Annie on the home dec colors,  and the yogurt channel, that I have hope someone here can put me out of my misery.

I'm almost 56, I'm about 20lbs overweight,   I have poor circulation. My orthropedic surgeon tells me my bones are too soft for surgery.  I work out twice a week with a personal trainer and at least once or twice more on my own every week.  I have a cat that I walk every day.  I get my vitimin D from the sun (God I love Southern California, even if I'm old enought be be EVERYBODY's mother).  But... I have a problem.

I have to do the foot and calf cramp dance multiple times every night.  It's horrible.  Last night,  l couldn't straighten my feet out the cramps, they were so bad. When I tried to stand and use weight and gravity to flatten them it didn't work.  I took a horrid fall, and  I'm black and blue  on my backside.  I'm surprised my downstairs neighbor didn't call 911 on a domestic disturbance.

What can I do to make this stop being so severe, or stop it entirely?  There has got to be a homeopathic or vitiamin based answer.  Oh, and I eat a banana at least 3 days a week.  Can anyone try to help make this less severe?  I don't mind waking up at 2:30 in the morning; I do mind falling down and scaring everyone in the building.

[oldmancoyote]

I'm really sorry for the dance and fall - that's not where you want blue...

The only thing that comes to mind is having a drink with a potassium-rich saline integrator before you go to bed, but that assumes (you know: ass-u-me) that it is potassium deficiency causing it and a banana every other day is not enough; however it may be something else - how about seeing a doctor?

[Foxylady]

Ah2bqat

Please go to your doctor, to get a check up. I would hate for you to take another fall.... 

Foxylady 

[Mrs Mitchell]

I agree - a trip to the Dr is in order. This sounds unpleasant. Actually, my father gets something similar from time to time and he was prescribed medication that seems to help. So, worth seeing a Dr.

Don't suffer this, please get it checked out.

Jen

[Diamondsbylauren]

Please go to a doctor you feel comfortable with.
I feel so bad thinking of you falling!
I KNOW a lot of folks are here sending you good vibes.

Sometimes I awake to a horrid cramp in my calf.
It's so scary!
Sometimes the leg hurts for days afterwards....

Get someone to look at it.
If you're in pain, do what the doc says.
You have to get that foot in shape for walking through Times Square!
You're going to need to outrun all the slimy barkers on 47th Street!!

[ah2bqat]

Really, I'm ok.  The bedrooms in a typical house in this neighborhood are so small that if you fall over, all you can do is slide down the wall.  I made a lot of noise on the way down because of the metal blinds on the windows.   

And I will go to the doctor.  I have to see my orthopedic surgeon in a few weeks anyway, to check out how much the brace helps. It just seems to me this is one of those 'old people' things and I hate taking prescription meds if a slight change in the diet can make the correction.  One can always hope.

[Sparkly-OCD]

Per the Doctor's Book of Home Remedies:

Mineral deficiency can cause cramps.  Make sure that you are getting adequate amounts of calcium, potassium and MAGNESIUM in your diet.

Guzzle On Til Dark:  "A lot of times just being in a state of relatively low water volume can trigger cramps at night," says Dr. Lakowski .

Stretch It Out: "Before you go to bed, stretch all the major muscle groups, especially the  areas that tend to irritate you.  Hold each stretch for 30-40 seconds to get at the deep tissues.", says Dr. Ullis.

I hope you are recovering, and I hope the increased magnesium gives you some relief.  I have read of magnesium being used to treat muscle cramps in more than one article.  So, if I were you Ah2bqat, I would give it a try.  (Check on your calcium intake too.)

In my case, I would not rely on my ortho surgeon to cure my muscle cramps; my Physical Therapist would probably have better recommendations, if the calcium and magnesium don't work.

[ah2bqat]

  Magnesium, stretching, and more water.  Sparkly, we'll give it a go.  Thanks for the practical assessment!

I know I'm not retaining enough calcium.  That's why they can't operate on my ACL.  Doc sez the bones are too soft to risk the surgery, I'd probably just pop it back out.  I'm hoping the increase in exercise and calcum intake helps.  I haven't yet been prescribed an anti-osteo treatment, tho. I haven't had the 'official' bone density test yet.  One of these days, I'll get around to it.  sigh.  I HATE labwork and dr. visits.

[GIAGirl]

My initial reaction was that you were potassium deficient...you need to go see a doctor because you do not want to fall if your bones are that soft.   Can we add some bananas to you diet? 

[Sparkly-OCD]

Ah2bqat,

The bone density test is not invasive; you just lay down very still and an X-ray machine and a computer are used to calculate your bone density.  It checks your hip, spine, and ankle if I remember correctly.

Walking and other weight bearing exercises are good for increasing bone density, but swimming doesn't help much.

I read an article the other day about the osteo drugs, and it said that it increased density by hanging onto the decrepit bone cells that would have been discarded, creating bone tissue that is not to strong nor healthy.   

Do you eat Tums?  Tums contain the type of calcium that is absorbed by the body.  Try eating Tums instead of taking a calcium supplement.  If your magnesium is low, your body can't utilize the calcium.

Good Luck.

Sparkly

[ah2bqat]

Thanks, Sparkly! 

Tums has been my calcium of choice for years.  I did have a bone density test about 5 years ago, I know it's not to be feared, it's all the OTHER tests my primary care physician wants.    And I know my Mom has osteo; and my ortho surgeon tells me I'm gonna have to take daily SHOTS to build the right type of bone density.    l HATE shots.  I used to do allergy shots twice a weeks, and I'm allergic to the lidocaine used to keep them from hurting.   

[GIAGirl]

Shots of what, I wonder? 

[Diamondsbylauren]

What great info in this thread!

Sparkly- you're such a valuable asset to the forum, providing such important info to people- thank you!

[ah2bqat]

   I was hoping you'd chime in.  That's the sort of information I was hoping to garner.   Sparkly  I'm so glad you're back!

[webmistress]

From what I've written for healthcare clients and personal trainers, the load bearing exercises count for the most for all natural help. So weight lifting is particularly helpful.

[Sparkly-OCD]

Ah2bqat,

Monitor your sodium intake, and be particularly aware of diet soda.  In an effort to keep the sodium and water in balance, the kidneys excrete calcium regardless of your calcium status.

What's your phorphorous intake?  Bones are composed of calcium and phosphorous. 

If I were you I'd keep a diet diary, measuring my serving sizes, and then research how much of each mineral I am eating in a week per food item.  Then adjust accordingly.

Are you eating a little bit of fat with each meal to absorb fat soluble vitamins such as A, D, K and E.  Are you ramping up your intake of the C and B complex?  Are you taking D3, gotta be D3 not just D.  What about your omega 3 intake? What about zinc?  Have you had your thyroid tested?

As you know the body is a complex machine, and ramping up one supplement usually isn't the answer; it takes an orchestrated effort.   My allergist put me on 8 supplements to help me deal with inhalant allergies because I "use them up" dealing with the chronic condition.  That's why I am recommending an overall look at just what you are eating.

Are you drinking filtered water?  Not bottled but filtered. Fluoride is not good for bones; it makes them brittle.

Sparkly

[Diamondluvr]

Sorry to hear about your fall!

I would speak to your physician about switching to taking a supplement with Calcium Citrate instead of Calcium Carbonate(TUMS), Calcium citrate has a higher bioavailability so it is easier for your body to utilize than calcium carbonate.  Plus, Carbonate tends to cause bloating and gas, which is not the case with Citrate.

As stated above do take with Vitamin D3 for the best absorption.

As far as avoiding Fluoride, the research is still out on that:  Fluoride(in small doses) helps keep bones strong by stimulating the osteoblasts.  In combination with an adequate intake of calcium and vitamin D, it can help slow the erosion that leads to porous, brittle bones.  Cells called osteoblasts build up bone minerals, while cells called osteoclasts remove minerals from the skeleton for other uses within the body.

Also, avoid high caffeine and soda intake, as it can interfere with calcium absorption.

Good Luck!

[webmistress]

Hold on. Potassium. Eat a banana. Really. I remember when I was about 13, I had a growth spurt that was really fast. I shot up to 5'10" in one summer. I got terrible cramps in my calves. I ate bananas because my track coach told me to. It worked. And there is a prescription for the bones.

[ah2bqat]

Sodium, D3, Calcium Citrate, phosphorous, potassium,  food diary,  with A, D, K, E,  omega 3, no diet soda        NO DIET SODA? 

Getting old is not for the wimpy!  The good new is that by just adding a multivitamin of the 'silver' variety and making sure to take @ 8 oz of water directly before bedtime, I've gone 2 days without a foot or calf cramp. I still get up around 3, but now it's for a pit stop, not a dance!  

Looks like I'll be toddling off to the vitamin store today to see about scales and books and calcium citrate.  I do buy the orange juice with D and Calcium citrate added.   But we generally only drink OJ on the weekends.  Looks like a good excuse for a small glass on a daily basis.

This is wonderful information, and I thank everyone who has contributed.  You're going to get me on the road to better health in spite of myself!   

[robin]

I know this sounds insane, but according to The People's Pharmacy radio show and newspaper column, some people swear by putting a bar of Ivory soap under the bottom sheet of the bed, near the foot of the bed.

I know it makes no sense.  But it's obviously not harmful, so can't hurt, might help....

[oldmancoyote]

Pear or Dove might do at a pinch, but whatever you do, don't use French milled soap or you'll taken by an irresistible urge to dance the can-can every night. 

Whatever else??!!?? On the other hand, you are right, Robin. It's (nearly) free and it might just work.

[Sparkly-OCD]

 

I read an interesting article about the history of adding fluoride to our drinking water.  Fluoride was not specifically investigated as a healthful additive to our drinking water.  Fluoride is a by product of aluminum production and its disposal was a bit of a challenge.  Of course, the Big Bucks always speak louder than the little people, and WOW! we lucky Americans now have our water supply  treated (or is it contaminated?) with fluoride for the purpose of controlling dental decay/cavities by strengthening tooth enamel in our growing years.  My father-in-law sued the federal government trying to keep it out of our drinking water because he believed the studies that fluoride results in making the elderly's bones brittle, as does my pharmacist.

I'm a big water drinker, about two quarts a day, and I filter my water through activated charcoal.  Obviously, I have my permanent teeth, so I'm not interested in putting extra fluoride into my body.

[robin]

Here, about the soap:

http://www.snopes.co...ldwives/legcramp.asp

http://www.peoplesph...eases_leg_cramps.php

I know, I know.  But try it and report back....

[Diamondluvr]

Robin-interesting idea on placing the soap between the sheets, if nothing else the findings of it's usefulness can be accounted for by the placebo effect, which can be very high(30-80%) even in double-blind controlled studies.

Sparkly-I too am a big water drinker, about a gallon a day-in part, some of it is unfiltered tap water.  With all the research articles I have read on fluoride, I am quit confident that there are much worse factors leading to osteoporosis, than correctly fluoridated water alone.

[Sparkly-OCD]

Ah2bqat,

I just got this newsletter.  Check out the articles on osteoporosis; talks about Vitamin K2 and soft bones.

http://articles.merc...ur-Bones-Weaker.aspx

Sparkly