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Author Topic: Value of W-X yellow stone - horrible apprasial experience  (Read 883 times)
JustEngaged
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« on: January 28, 2012, 11:01:53 PM »

Hi -

Long story short, my fiance and I took my ring in to a local store for an insurance appraisal and I think the jeweler was WAY off.  He was certified but super unprofessional, distracted, dropped my ring and then gave us a very absurd estimate.   My fiance and I left the store very upset and I'm not sure where to go / what to do.  I'm just hoping to get a general idea of what my ring might be worth so that I'm not totally caught off guard.  Please help!

Here are the details;

Cushion Modified Brilliant
1.82 ct.
7.35 x 6.90 x 4.4 mm
Depth 63.7%
Table 66%
Culet none
Girdle Thick to very thick
Polish Good
Symmetry Good
Fluorescence Faint Blue
Clarity VS2
Color Light Yellow (W-X)

There are also 70 round brilliant cut natural diamonds F-G color, VS2-S11 clarity surrounding the stone. 

Total weight is 1.99ct.

The ring is a sparkler and I love it.  I know it's very difficult to give an estaimate without seeing the ring, but if someone could give me an idea of a range, it might help perk us back up until I can find a more reliable store. 

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dovesgate
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 11:10:08 PM »

You may wish to just use your receipt from wherever you purchased it for your insurance appraisal.

However, here is a loose stone similar to yours. Same color, slightly smaller weight, no fluor:
http://rockdiamond.c...-great-sparkle-r3971

 


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JustEngaged
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2012, 07:08:09 AM »

Thanks. This is the only similar stone in the same general size I could find as well. I did see a few 1 ct in the 4k range so I assumed mine was in the 8k-8500 range.  The jeweler did say (not that I believe a word) that my setting was about 3500.  So for ease of argument I could expect a estimate in the 11k - 12k ballpark?? Is that about right?

Again, I really appreciate the help!
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lovecolor
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2012, 08:08:28 AM »

Hi JE...I'd like to congratulate you and your fiance on your engagement... heart2

Now, how about posting your beautiful sparkly ER so we all can get a better look at the ring you so very love...and it does sound lovely!  Smiley

BTW, did piecing the price of the DBL single stone below plus that $3500 semi-mount quote make you feel more comfortable with your purchase price?  You didn't mention what metal was used for the setting...but I think the quote he gave you for that 1.99 ctw. high quality diamond setting was on the low side...of course,  depending on the metal used, workmanship and whether is was a  custom hand made piece...

Pictures please... N1Please2HL1          
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DiamondsAreForever
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2012, 08:17:23 AM »

I second the motion of using your purchase receipt for insurance purposes.  Also, you may wish to chose an insurance company that allows you to work with your own jeweler to secure a replacement, a company that does not replace the stone/ring with their definition of "like" merchandise.

When I became engaged, my jeweler gave DF an appraisal that was double of what he paid for the set.  The lowest independent appraisal he was able to get was 180 percent of what he paid. Needless to say, it would have cost a fortune to insure it.  We settled on providing the insurance company with a copy of the purchase receipt and the GIA certificate.  They didn't seem to have a problem with it, and still haven't, even though diamonds have increased significantly in price in the last year and a half.

May I ask why you are so concerned about the appraisal price?  The appraisal provided by the seller may have been elevated, as described in the text above, perhaps in an attempt to make you and your DF believe you were getting a fantastic deal.  Was the independent appraisal closer to what your DF paid for the ring?  

Oh, and by the way, welcome to CDI and the realm of being a colored diamond owner, and congratulations on your engagement.  We LOVE pictures!  Please post some.
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clgwli
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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2012, 08:37:53 AM »

I would *only* use the receipt for insurance purposes if you have a policy that allows you to have say in the diamond replacement if it ever comes to that.  With my homeowners insurance I would want to use the very detailed appraisal so that they couldn't try to stick me with a lower quality diamond than what I got.  Now if your receipt gives the color, clarity and any grading report numbers then that would be fine to use.

Since I actually use a stand alone policy that allows me to pick my vendor and have say in the stone & setting, I don't worry as much aobut the details.  With my homeowner's insurance I would have to let them pick where to buy and replace everything which I won't do.  My policy allows me to go to wherever I want to pick a stone/setting.  As long as it isn't above the insured value they will just pay the bill.  If I want to upgrade at the time I pay any differences out of pocket.

Is your stone graded by someone like GIA or even IGI?  If it is does the appraisal match up with what you thought you bought?  My personal thoughts on appraisers is that if you want a 2nd opinion you must go to a stand alone appraiser - not a jewelry store.  Unless you really trust the jewelry store, there is usually a huge conflict of interest.  Personally speaking I find it really hard to find a store that is trustworthy Sad  Many I go to when I am browsing do all they can to put an item down to try to sell me a new one.  It really disgusts me.  I have had more bad than good jewelry store experiences.  The truly good are a rare breed indeed.

I am curious how off was the appraiser with what you thought you had?  It is hard to accurately grade a stone in a setting which can account for differences (not including just doing a poor job of appraising).  Also if this person is not used to grading stones of color then I would wonder how they know the true value of a colored diamond.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2012, 10:57:53 AM »

[snip]
 My personal thoughts on appraisers is that if you want a 2nd opinion you must go to a stand alone appraiser - not a jewelry store.  Unless you really trust the jewelry store, there is usually a huge conflict of interest.
[snip]

Entirely agreed. If you do need the appraisal, don't go to someone whose business is not appraising but selling jewellery.

If you are in the US, you can use

www.appraisers.org
www.najaappraisers.com
www.ags.org

to find someone who is an independent appraiser near you.
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JustEngaged
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 07:47:00 PM »

Thank you for all of the comments.  They have helped a ton! To answer a couple questions -

1. I do have a certificate for the stone (EGL USA) but I do not have an appraisal from the store of purchase.
2. The appraiser that I went to rated my ring the exact same as my paperwork (he actually said he would rate the color as a light fancy, not W-X).  I did not allow him to view my paperwork until after the appraisal was completed as I wanted to make sure he didn't simply copy the specs. 
3. I was planning on insuring my ring with Jewelers Mutual.  I called but was told that any value insured over $5,000 must be submitted with an independent appraisal in addition to a certification.

Here's where the story gets fishy...

The appraiser that I went to stated that he found numerous comperables (1.8+, natural light fancy yellow, VS2) for $2000-$3000.  This is where I almost fell out of my chair.  If you could purchase a 1.8+ ct diamond for $2,000+, wouldn't everyone have a giant yellow stone?  I've not seen a single stone for this price or even in this range.  Have any of you?  From what I have found, even much lesser quality stones are still far above this range.  At this point I not only need an accurate appraisal for insurance, I also want piece of mind.  I can tell you the purchase price of the stone was MUCH higher than the value stated and I really want to make sure we weren't totally taken for a ride.     

I'll take a look at the list of appraisers provided.  Thanks!
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2012, 08:47:38 AM »

You could always ask him to point you at the comparables... and bet that he won't be able to point at any.

Get a proper appraisal done!
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shiba
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« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2012, 10:22:22 PM »

Here's where the story gets fishy...

The appraiser that I went to stated that he found numerous comperables (1.8+, natural light fancy yellow, VS2) for $2000-$3000.  This is where I almost fell out of my chair.  If you could purchase a 1.8+ ct diamond for $2,000+, wouldn't everyone have a giant yellow stone?  I've not seen a single stone for this price or even in this range.  Have any of you?  From what I have found, even much lesser quality stones are still far above this range.  At this point I not only need an accurate appraisal for insurance, I also want piece of mind.  I can tell you the purchase price of the stone was MUCH higher than the value stated and I really want to make sure we weren't totally taken for a ride.     


Pardon me?  If he found comparables for that price, I want to know where.  Seriously.
And *bay doesn't count.
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DiamondsAreForever
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2012, 04:54:16 AM »

Wow!  I'd also like to know where a comparable that inexpensive is.  From what you've told us of your diamond, that gentleman sounds way off.  Take OMC's advice and seek an independent appraisal service.
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clgwli
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2012, 07:16:04 AM »

You could always ask him to point you at the comparables... and bet that he won't be able to point at any.

Get a proper appraisal done!
I so agree!  I would imagine that these "comparables" really aren't so comparable at all - if they do indeed exist.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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lovecolor
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2012, 07:20:54 AM »

  Hey, maybe the "poor" guy was not wearing his glasses at the time...he obviously didn't see the number 1 in front of the decimal point...a simple error...What's a whole extra carat when speaking about diamonds anyway???      tard
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2012, 10:27:06 AM »

 bunny icon_albino extra carrots? anybody said carrots? icon_albino bunny
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lovecolor
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« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2012, 10:36:12 AM »

 bunny7                bunny7                 bunny7                bunny7               bunny7                bunny7               bunny7             bunny7                 bunny7              bunny7               bunny7                           
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2012, 01:33:47 PM »

Thank you for all of the comments.  They have helped a ton! To answer a couple questions -

1. I do have a certificate for the stone (EGL USA) but I do not have an appraisal from the store of purchase.
2. The appraiser that I went to rated my ring the exact same as my paperwork (he actually said he would rate the color as a light fancy, not W-X).  I did not allow him to view my paperwork until after the appraisal was completed as I wanted to make sure he didn't simply copy the specs.  
3. I was planning on insuring my ring with Jewelers Mutual.  I called but was told that any value insured over $5,000 must be submitted with an independent appraisal in addition to a certification.

Here's where the story gets fishy...

The appraiser that I went to stated that he found numerous comperables (1.8+, natural light fancy yellow, VS2) for $2000-$3000.  This is where I almost fell out of my chair.  If you could purchase a 1.8+ ct diamond for $2,000+, wouldn't everyone have a giant yellow stone?  I've not seen a single stone for this price or even in this range.  Have any of you?  From what I have found, even much lesser quality stones are still far above this range.  At this point I not only need an accurate appraisal for insurance, I also want piece of mind.  I can tell you the purchase price of the stone was MUCH higher than the value stated and I really want to make sure we weren't totally taken for a ride.      

I'll take a look at the list of appraisers provided.  Thanks!


Hello everybody!

Amazing advice given so far.
A few things stand out to me....
1) it's going to be extremely difficult to find an appraiser familiar with these colors.
2) An EGL report calling a stone W-X is worth....less than nothing. Stones with such EGL grades could be an L color for all we know.
Just engaged- that is not to say you don't have a lovely diamond- but whoever sold it to you should have been very clear that EGL is not a reliable source of grading information. That makes any kind of comparable impossible to really equate......I would not even take an appraiser's word on something like this.
Depending on what you paid, it might make sense to
a) keep it as it is, and not really carte- if it's cheap enough.
b) if you paid a price comparable to a real W-X VS2 ( as graded by GIA)- then either ask for a refund, or ask that the seller submit the stone to GIA- which itself is problematic.
The stone must be removed from the setting for proper grading. That includes any appraiser as well.

SO- if the price is cheap enough, the lab report becomes far less important.
What is never less important is the quality of information supplied by the seller.
Were you aware of the EGL discrepancy?


ETA- let's not even waste time on the moron quoting $2k for a 1.8ct
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David
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