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Author Topic: should yellow diamonds wear girdles?  (Read 672 times)
saqsay1
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« on: August 31, 2008, 10:12:52 AM »

hello all. i know i spend way to much time shopping on the internet. how do i know? because i came across this picture of the underside of a "fancy yellow" diamond ring. i think it is rather pretty, and could quite possibly make a S-T or U-V diamond look much darker. so i was wondering...... has DBL ever made anything like this? would you consider it? i am not trying to imply that you pass off S-T or U-V 's as FY........ i just thought it might be a cool idea for those of us with champagne test and a beer pocketbook. i think the filigree work is pretty.


* fancy yello underwire basket design.jpg (18.02 KB, 400x400 - viewed 25 times.)
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saqsay1
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2008, 10:15:01 AM »

 david webmistress

i forgot to summon the experts   ..............   Grin
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2008, 10:56:31 AM »

Can't really answer your questions re: what would/did DBL do, but...

1. If I were buying any "serious" stone, I'd want it with a GIA / AGA / AGS report (HRD at a pinch in Europe). That would circumvent the issue of whether it's the setting rather than the stone.

2. If the ring is fairly priced for what it is, then it really enters the realm of personal taste. Some people (including me) like vivid colours, others go for more subdued tones; however how you achieve the look is - I think - entirely up to you. BTW - I don't think that once a ring is worn there is that much light coming through or being reflected from the bottom, otherwise all those that have colourless diamonds would seem to have fancy pinks or browns, depending on their skin tone.

3. More than the effect on colour, I'd be worried about managing to clean the ring, and specifically the underside of the stone. That scrollwork looks wide enough to allow all sorts of gunk to go in, and tight enough not to allow any brush to reach through...

Just my 3¢
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kleinkath
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2008, 12:03:24 PM »

My DBL 3 stone Y-Z cushion has a "girdle" of yellow gold underneath to enhance the colour.  My S-T EC doesn't.  As far as the cleaning goes I use a very tiny dental brush that works wonders for getting the grim out from under the stone.


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Mrs Mitchell
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2008, 12:07:08 PM »


 BTW - I don't think that once a ring is worn there is that much light coming through or being reflected from the bottom, otherwise all those that have colourless diamonds would seem to have fancy pinks or browns, depending on their skin tone.

3
It would be a fancy light blue if I wore it, especially in winter! Grin
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2008, 01:28:25 PM »

That would not be necessarily a bad thing, though, would it?
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2008, 08:31:51 PM »

hello all. i know i spend way to much time shopping on the internet. how do i know? because i came across this picture of the underside of a "fancy yellow" diamond ring. i think it is rather pretty, and could quite possibly make a S-T or U-V diamond look much darker. so i was wondering...... has DBL ever made anything like this? would you consider it? i am not trying to imply that you pass off S-T or U-V 's as FY........ i just thought it might be a cool idea for those of us with champagne test and a beer pocketbook. i think the filigree work is pretty.

Hi everybody!

We've tried all different methods of setting.
after years of doing this, we generally keep the backs of rings open.
Yes, you might gain a shade if you close off the back completely- but there are also drawbacks.
One of the main ones was astutely pointed out by oldmancoyote.... that it makes cleaning the diamond more difficult.
I agree the filigree work is pretty.
OMC also made mention of gem labs- here I am extremely particular.
The only acceptable report for a natural colored diamond ( either deeply colored or faint) diamond is GIA.
Regretfully, I've seen enough HRD reports to know that they fall into the category of all the other non GIA labs...that being.
They serve a purpose.
For example, sometimes we buy diamonds with EGl reports.
The measurements are accurate- but we never use the color and clarity off a non GIA report.
EGL and HRD will measure stones correctly- and can also tell you if a stone has been treated- but the grades are not accepted by dealers.

Another purpose these type of reports serve- regretfully- is to attempt to deceive consumers.

For example: A nicely cut 2.00 Radiant Diamond, Natural Fancy Yellow VS with no fluorescence is going to cost say at least $20 something thousand in today's market- quite possibly a whole lot more- depending on where you buy it.
BUT- you'll see scads of "Fancy Yellow" 2 carat stones or rings for a lot less. Why?
The willingness of sellers to accept- and create their sales pitch based on the "overgrading" of the goods.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now....sorry for the rant.....
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David
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Trinkette
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2008, 09:16:40 PM »

 webmistress Where's the SOAPBOX SMILEY?
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2008, 10:37:15 PM »

Don't have a soapbox smilie. Trinkette- You have been issued the job of finding that. If not, I'll have to make one.

I will never tire of seeing KK's ring collection.
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Trinkette
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2008, 10:43:27 PM »

Yes, yes, I was so carried away by the soapbox extravaganza that I forgot to mention KKs beautiful collection. Each is ring is simply gorgeous.

Hummm, WHERE to find that dang soapbox smiley?  Perhaps David has it...
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saqsay1
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2008, 11:40:19 PM »

may i suggest a smiley, standing on an upside down crate reading a scroll with a droll look upon his face?
hmmmm come to think of it, what does a droll face look like....... Grin
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Trinkette
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2008, 09:19:24 AM »

 webmistress Your wish is my command.  sultan

  http://www.mylot.com...w/image/1857272.aspx

( Actually, that was relatively easy to find. I just don't know what to DO with it once I've found it... )
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Mikla
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2008, 09:25:41 AM »

Trinkette, that's perfect!  We definitely need to add that one to the forum.

 Grin  Mikla
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kleinkath
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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2008, 09:57:45 AM »

Thanks WM and Trinkette!
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djm195
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2008, 10:46:57 AM »

Slightly off topic, but I need to know the answer to this one. 

Yesterday I was shopping for a new watch in a local jewelry store. My SA was blabbing her sales pitch but I wasn't listening because I was too busy eavesdropping on the conversation at the next counter.

A middle-aged man was shopping for a diamond as an anniversary gift for his wife. He was looking in a case that had loose diamonds and was asking about a 2 ct oval diamond. (Right there my ears perked up). Anyhow, the SA tells him that it is a "canary" diamond and it is graded a K color. I wanted so desparately to slip him a note with the DBL website and a message to run for his life. This entire time, my SA is still talking to me and I'm not registering anything that she is saying to me because I'm straining to hear the convo next to me.

Just then, I hear the customer ask how the jeweler "knows" it is a K color. The SA responds by saying that they have a COLORIMETER.  What the frank-n-beans is a colorimeter?  Has anyone ever heard of this before?  How accurate are they?

David?
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Mrs Mitchell
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2008, 11:04:29 AM »

Foolishly, I'd hoped you were going to say "because we have a GIA cert" there lol.

I have heard of machines being used to grade colour but I don't think they're too well regarded. Pretty sure the GIA don't use a machine. I have a rough idea of what David will think of them but I could be totally wrong!
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saqsay1
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2008, 11:43:50 AM »

DJM- did he buy it?
 personally, i would have followed him out of the store and told him that they were full of crap. Evil
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Trinkette
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2008, 11:44:47 AM »

Uh-oh.  This sounds like another golden opportunity for David and the Soapbox Smiley.
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Mikla
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2008, 12:02:37 PM »

Well, I don't think this machine is meant to be as accurate as hand-grading, but GIA GEM Instruments sells "A wide range of new products include the GIA GEM Colorimeter - for color grading loose and mounted diamonds in seconds."   This quote came from:  http://www.gia.edu/n..._release_details.cfm



Mikla
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djm195
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2008, 02:41:07 PM »

Thanks Mikla. So... this machine is endorsed by GIA?  I wonder what the accuracy rate is?

Sagsay, I never found out because I was pressed for time and had to leave. I did notice a beautiful antique OEC tie tac before I left, but that's a whole 'nother story.
 
BTW, I have been known to wait outside of jewelers after witnessing young guys shopping for E-rings inside. I usually say that I have a son his age and would welcome it if someone educated him to purchasing a diamond. I then hand him a preprinted card with DBL website on it and tell them to take a look. I also tell them to log onto the forum because the folks there will answer any questions he might have. If nothing else he'd get a little more educated.

I know that it sounds sketchy approaching perfect strangers this way but I have to say that it has always been well received and they end up shaking my hand in appreciation. (That's how you can tell you've connected). I've never been blown off--maybe I just have an honest face.  dontknow

More times than not they thank me and say how difficult it is to find what they think their girlfriends want in their budget. One time a guy told me that what he liked about XYZ store was that he could put down 20% and pay the rest over 1 year. He just graduated college and said he couldn't afford to do anything else--I had nothing to say after that. He also said they offer a full refund within 3 mos and only charge a restocking fee if the ring is out of circulation for more than 6 months.
It's tough on the young guys these days--I can really sympathize...
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2008, 03:02:52 PM »

Hi everybody!
I have had experience with this machine.  GIA does not use it.
Diamonds are graded based on human observation at the GIA.

My opinion on the machine?  Well... let's just say if you don't know anything about diamonds, then it might be useful.
But, if you don't anything about diamonds, why would you buy such a machine?

There are times that people disagree with GIA's grades.
You can submit a diamond for a re-check.

One time, I was working for a company that had the colorimeter.  Before sending a 2ct plus diamond to GIA, we tested it on the machine.
The machine graded the diamond H color.
GIA graded the diamond I color.
The bottom line is that you cannot use the results of the colorimeter, and expect GIA to change their grade- they did not.


My overall feeling about the machine, is that as a dealer, if you started depending on it, you won't grade the diamonds by eye like you should.
Either way you still might have disputes over a GIA grade, but you'll have more confidence in your own eye and your ability to see colors in the diamond.

The machine might be of use for people who are color blind.
I'd say that would be a HUGE handicap for a diamond dealer- or someone who needs to grade diamonds, for whatever reason.


BTW- the article is from 1998- and my experience with this type of machine dates back to the late '70s.
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David
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2008, 03:04:09 PM »

Thanks Mikla. So... this machine is endorsed by GIA?  I wonder what the accuracy rate is?

Sagsay, I never found out because I was pressed for time and had to leave. I did notice a beautiful antique OEC tie tac before I left, but that's a whole 'nother story.
 
BTW, I have been known to wait outside of jewelers after witnessing young guys shopping for E-rings inside. I usually say that I have a son his age and would welcome it if someone educated him to purchasing a diamond. I then hand him a preprinted card with DBL website on it and tell them to take a look. I also tell them to log onto the forum because the folks there will answer any questions he might have. If nothing else he'd get a little more educated.

I know that it sounds sketchy approaching perfect strangers this way but I have to say that it has always been well received and they end up shaking my hand in appreciation. (That's how you can tell you've connected). I've never been blown off--maybe I just have an honest face.  dontknow

More times than not they thank me and say how difficult it is to find what they think their girlfriends want in their budget. One time a guy told me that what he liked about XYZ store was that he could put down 20% and pay the rest over 1 year. He just graduated college and said he couldn't afford to do anything else--I had nothing to say after that. He also said they offer a full refund within 3 mos and only charge a restocking fee if the ring is out of circulation for more than 6 months.
It's tough on the young guys these days--I can really sympathize...


 hugging
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David
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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2008, 04:12:35 PM »

Well! THe GIA use it and I stand corrected!

DJM, I hope you've stopped at least one expensive mistake. Good work!

Jen
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Mikla
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« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2008, 04:20:24 PM »

I didn't think the GIA used it for themselves since they describe in detail on their site that they grade color by eye.  The instrument is sold by a subsidiary of theirs that sells instruments and the like.  I think David hit the nail on the head when he said that if you don't know anything about about diamonds, then it might be useful.  That pretty much describes the kind of establishment that DJM said he was in.  I am sure it will convince some unsuspecting customers who don't know any better.

Mikla
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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2008, 04:44:21 PM »

I apologize- I was not clear.
The GIA does not use any machine to grade the color of diamonds.
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David
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