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annadragon
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« on: December 27, 2008, 05:27:25 AM »

Hello!  I came over this way via Pricescope. 
I've become enamored of green diamonds lately.  Namely because I'd like to put one into a tension setting and emeralds are not hard enough to be placed into tension settings.
I've noticed of the websites where I've found greens the sizes seem either to be greater than 2cts or less than .5ct.  Am I looking in the wrong places?
The tension setting requires alot of pressure and Kretchmer reserves the right to reject my diamond should they feel because of the inclusions or placement of the inclusions that it would be damaged during the setting process.  Alot of the greens and other colored diamonds that list a clarity rating seem to be SI1 or below. 
Am I getting in over my head looking for a green diamond preferably 1.25 - 1.5ct, VS clarity, natural (as opposed to irradiated) and not bank breaking? 
Also, I have a silly question.  How well do greens sparkle as compared to a well cut white? 
Finally, would someone be kind enough to recommend a good resource (besides bugging everyone on the forums) about buying colored diamonds?

Thanks!
Anna
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2008, 07:30:22 AM »

Hi Anna,

Welcome to CDI!

I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge - others please feel free to contradict or add.

1. Size. There is no reason why green diamonds should be "rarer" in sizes between 0.5 and 2ct. However they are very rare in absolute terms, so it may just be a question of continuing to look!

2. Bank breaking. It depends a lot on the purity of the green and its intensity. If you are looking for a natural pure intense green 1 - 1.5ct, my guess is you are talking of $120k / ct or more. On the other hand, a light brownish-grayish-green can be found for less than $3,000 / ct. For greens, purity of hue seems to be most important - so if you are ready to tolerate some brown, gray or yellow you may be able to get a seriously nice stone at a (relatively) affordable price.

3. Clarity. Fancy colours are generally appreciated primarily on the basis of colour, and inclusions are more difficult to see, so people are more tolerant of them and cutters are even more reluctant to lose weight in the name of clarity, especially in rarer colours. I appreciate the issue with the tension setting, but I would also suggest that not all inclusions are created equal. While a surface-breaking feather or a crystal near the girdle may pose a problem, a cloud or a feather deep into the stone may be perfectly safe - while still warranting an SI or even an I clarity grade, so don't discard them sight unseen "just because" they are not VS.

4. Sparkle. It all depends on the cut - which generally in fancy colours is planned to maximise the attractiveness of the colour, rather than sparkle or light return like in "colourless" diamonds. Which is why round-brilliant fancy colours are rather rare, while radiants are quite common. Having said this, a well-cut fancy colour will sparkle and shine - a lot. Just forget any "rules" that you may have picked up on PS, and assess each stone on its merits using your eyes. If you browse the forum or DBL's online store you'll find a lot of photos and videos of fancy colour diamonds - including a few greens - to get your eye in.

5. Sources. This is a sponsored forum, so we aren't allowed to name other retailers. However, David is one of the best dealers there are for coloured diamonds. Call him and ask - you'll be surprised; to start with he will say it's practically impossible to find, but he will call you a couple of days later with the stone you asked for, even when it's a fancy deep pink hippo-cut...  Grin

Good luck with your search - and keep in touch!
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Trinkette
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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2008, 10:01:15 AM »

Anna, thanks for joining the discussion and welcome to the group!

I doubt that it is possible to answer your questions much more thoughtfully than OMC just did, kudos OMC. (Still looking for that pink hippo cut... eh? Roll Eyes )

Anna, not knowing your price considerations, I will add that many of the more reasonably priced natural green diamonds most likely will be "light" or "faint" in color, with or without the color modifiers that OMC mentions. Even with a deeper fancy color, just be aware that the hue may be a subtle, soft green, as opposed to SCREAMING emerald green. It is obvious, but, I bring this up only because you specifically mention desiring a natural green diamond as opposed to an emerald – two totally different birds.

Also, I'd echo what OMC said regarding inclusions. Diamonds receive clarity ratings for many different reasons. I wouldn't reject any diamonds out of hand, especially when looking at natural fancy colors. A savvy retailer will study each diamond knowledgeably, maybe even confer with a setter, and be able to help you cull good from bad for all the right reasons, not because of what a piece of paper says. (Speaking of paper, I'd try to stick to diamonds with GIA reports). Unless you were a collector of unset stones, I can't imagine a great retailer showing you a diamond for jewelry that could cause setting issues of ANY kind, tension setting or not.

I've had the pleasure of visiting David at DBL several times, and I've been thrilled out of my socks to have seen scores of DBL diamonds and diamond pieces in person. That translates into many, many, MANY colored diamonds in my hot, greedy little hands! First, no matter what a grading report says, each and every diamond is different, and has qualities – some you'll like, and some you won't – that are not "on the paper." For example, there are no grades for "crystal" or "performance," two characteristics that you've got to see in person. And, you've already identified "sparkle" (part of performance?) as a priority. I can not emphasize how important it is for you, or your trusted diamond guy (we'll get to that), to examine EACH stone in terms of YOUR priorities.

Second, in ANY faceted colored stones, it is not uncommon for the sparkle factor to go down as the color hue deepens. Especially with intense or vividly colored stones. You get to a point, and COLOR comes first. Does that make sense?

Also, I started out as a round brilliant junkie. And, to some degree I still am. I just LOVE a diamond that "performs." I'll be honest and say that a few years ago my least favorite cut was the radiant. That's because I hadn't seen a good one. Now, I know better. A well-cut radiant will bring as much life and excitement to the diamond as a brilliant-cut diamond. It just has a different look. This is an over-simplification, but, RBs have big slices of flash and rainbow colors. By comparison, radiants have teeny, tiny, shimmering flecks of glitter. They each sparkle like mad in their own way. I own both, and I am completely captivated by both. And, I've grown to absolutely LOVE the glitter look. I can't take my eyes off it. So, my point is, don't limit your search, look for a fabulous diamond in ANY well-cut shape and facet pattern. You'll be pleasantly surprised when you find the gorgeous ones!

Sponsored forum, or not, I must agree. David is tops. And, if the special diamond is out there, he can find what you are looking for. If it is NOT out there, most likely, he'll be able to suggest another wonderful option. You'd be in good hands with David as your diamond guy.

Best of luck with your search... I hope you'll stick around even AFTER you've discovered the green beauty of your dreams!  hello

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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2008, 11:57:20 AM »

Hi All!
Natural Green in diamonds is among the rarest of all colors.

The "info" available online is very sketchy when it comes to things like a green diamond.
For example, I would seriously doubt that any green diamond being offered in larger size is natural- unless it cost as much as a mansion. Unfortunately, a lot of the sites offering these treated stones conveniently forget to mention that fact.

Green is one of the most difficult colors for GIA to recognize, and validate. For that reason, a green with imperfection is almost...preferable. The presence of an imperfection makes it easier for GIA to establish the natural nature of the diamond's color


A well cut natural green diamond can have tremendous sparkle.
Well cut fancy colored diamonds are indeed cut for a lot of sparkle- who wants a dull diamond? The best cutters of fancy colored diamonds maximize both color and sparkle.
I do not believe the term "light return" is applicable to judging any diamonds- rather it is a term cooked up by people trying to sell diamonds based on tests. Tests, which in my opinion, are totally irrelevant.


As OMC mentioned, stones that have modifying colors cost a small fraction of a pure green.
As Trinkette mentioned, the hue of a green diamond is nothing at all like an emerald.
Here's a diamond we recently sold that shows a greenish tint.


I will admit that I am not a fan of tension settings.
To achieve stability, a tension ring has to be bulky. Even then they are not nearly as stable as a ring that has some sort of prong or bezel to hold the diamond.
What I recommend to ladies who like that look is a mock tension setting. It looks like a tension but there's some structure underneath which stabilizes the ring and allows it to be far more tailored in size.
This is a mans ring, but we've done them for ladies as well


The question about getting in over your head is pertinent.
Unless your bank is really strong, a natural 1.00ct green diamond will break it.
As opposed to natural yellow diamonds, green are virtually impossible to find and prohibitively expensive.

Unless you are really committed to following that course, I'd suggest shopping for a yellow, or a green with modifying colors.

In terms of a dealer, well, yes, I'd suggest us.
There are a few other sites specializing in fancy colored diamonds- but I know what we do- we'll make sure you get a diamond, and/or a ring which is natural, unique special , and one you love.

Thank you so much for coming here to ask- and to our OMC and Trinkette who have been so generous with their time and sharing their knowledge.
Please feel free to call us anytime- or post follow up questions!
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David
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2008, 02:19:02 PM »

We've had some nice cool and unusual ones that looked green. They were, of course, natural but had other qualifiers which, made them look more like their own thing and not an emerald. Here are some that have passed through our office in the past few years. We've had more than these--I've just chosen a few to decorate this page.

http://diamondsbylau...BL_CoolUnusual.shtml
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2008, 02:17:10 PM »

i agree with everyone here...  unless you're prepared to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for pure green, i'd go with a greenish modifying colors...  much much affordable...
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