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clgwli
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« on: May 27, 2010, 11:27:07 AM »

This is a highly generic question and I realize that it might not be so straight forwad of an answer.  However after a jeweler called me back about looking for a stone (almost 2 weeks later) I had to ask.

What is the most common shape you find colored diamonds in?  I thought I had read fancy shapes in general were the most common and rounds were the least.  After something that was said to me I wonder if that is true or not.

I'll explain more about why I am asking in a while.  Thanks Smiley
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2010, 12:00:05 PM »

Radiant is the most common shape for colours - light path in a radiant is generally very long, so any body colour is intensified. For the same - but opposite - reason, rounds are popular for colourless: light path is short.
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2010, 12:48:58 PM »

HI all!
clgwli, generally speaking, radiant and cushion are the most common shapes in fancy colors above...say about a quarter carat..

In the smaller sizes, rounds are more common.

In larger sizes, rounds are quite rare.

I am amazed by all the "misinformation" out there.......I'd love to hear the cock and bull story you were told!!
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clgwli
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2010, 01:41:52 PM »

Thanks guys.  I figure I'll just tell the story.

I went to one store to look at what they offered since they claim to be specializing in colored diamonds now.  They had a bunch out compared to your average store though I'd say at least half were color enhanced.  You know the really bright blues and greens that just don't look quite right.

I told them I wanted at least a half a carat up to a full eye clean radiant in a soft yellow or brown color.  Yellow was my first choice, but I really also like a lot of honey colored stones as well.  I wasn't looking for bright bright yellows or very dark brown since I am more of a subdued person.  So they looked at what they had in stock and only had a FLY 1.03 carat cushion they wanted for more than double my budget and set in a very flimsy looking setting.  I'm talking 1mm or so thick with just four prongs.

Anyway, she took my information and told me she'd call.  (yep this is from the other story).  She finally called back and told me that they had no luck in finding anything.

Now what struck me as odd was that she said they had a lot of round brilliants in the colors, but no radiants.  Said that if I wanted a RB they could definitely hook me up with one as they are very easy to find.

Obviously it didn't matter to me since I was looking at the new shiny as she was telling me this, but I thought I had heard that RB were harder to find in most colors.

I sort of wonder if she was going to try to sell me an enhanced stone by saying what I wanted was impossible to find.

Big jump in conclusions on my part I know.  So that's why I asked.

I am a shopper and I like to research before I buy.  I had a good idea what I could find and for what cost even with certain mark ups.  So I find it hard to believe they couldn't find at least a 1/2 carat radiant in what I wanted.   I think their mark up was either too high, or they were trying to make money by selling an enhanced stone.

I am a straight shooter and while I disliked the store for not calling, it is really unforgivable to lie to me.  And for some reason I get the feeling I am being lied to by them somehow.

I used to use these guys for semi-precious gem buys and some sterling, but now I have this creepy feeling about them.  Considering I am still young enough that a lot of my friends are getting engaged and married, it's probably not wise to have me tell bad stories about other jewelry places because I talk a lot LOL (and what little I do wear, my friends usually admire... boy I can't wait to show them the new one in the next few days)  And since I like jewelry and try to learn as much as possible, quite a few have come to me for recommendations.  Fortunately I've never sent someone that way and stuck to the very small store that made my small studs for me for custom work when asked.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2010, 04:33:00 PM »

SOunds to me like they were going to try and sell you an irradiated stone.
Clearly there are NOT more round diamonds in the category you had asked for, if we're talking about natural.

As far as supply....I'll admit, I am totally spoiled.
I've been in the business for a long time at the wholesale level, so we have a lot of contacts.
Part of having a successful diamond business is knowing who to call for what.

For example, if I want brown diamonds, I can sometimes find them from our normal cutters ( for yellows)
BUT, I also have a few places that are dedicated to browns.

If we are looking for a D/VVS1 RBC "Ideal" cut, that's a totally different cutter.

But since we buy so many yellows ( and variants on yellow), we see a LOT of selection in that category.
I'd imagine it would be impossible for a typical retail store to round up 1 stone for every five we can get our hands on...
Plus, we never have to have them shipped in- since most of the large cutters are all here in NYC to begin with
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clgwli
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 05:25:24 PM »

Now you know why I e-mailed you right away after that weekend of looking locally  Grin  Okay honestly you were going to be e-mailed or called on Monday, but I needed to see some stone shapes in person before I decided.  That's mostly why I went out.  I was curious if a store could come up with something I might want to look at, but I admit I wasn't very hopeful.  I was pretty certain no one would have one on hand for me to look at, and I was right.  But there was no doubt in my mind that you wouldn't be able to find something I would like since I've been eyeing your store for a long time now!

The more I think about the two conversations I had with her, the more I do think she wanted an easy fix by giving me an irridated stone instead of keeping on looking.

At the store she was big on how since they are family owned, they are in contact with many cutters and they were sure they could find something.  If not there is a show in Las Vegas soon (am I right?) and if needed she knew she could find it there.  If she wasn't quick to make a sale why would she change the story?

I have to say this is disappointing to realize.  I'm a loyal gal when it comes to things like this.  It makes me never want to go in their store again, and likely I won't.  I really don't like people who try to play me.

I'm rambling, but I really appreciate the answer to this question. 
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2010, 05:47:30 PM »

Wow, that's ashame.... not to defend anyone's actions, rather to offer possible motivations.....
When you look at the rent stores have to pay, plus other expenses, sometimes the motivation to keep a customer is very strong.
Add to this the fact that stores are likely sick to death with customers telling them how great a deal can be found online....the net result is that sometimes salespeople are moved to use techniques that they might otherwise not do......
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David
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2010, 07:23:13 PM »

I'm just wondering - when people talk about "soft yellow" they may mean anything from K-L to FLY. Now, David, please correct me if I'm wrong, but K-L rounds are rather common indeed (and probably quite common through to O-P), whereas radiants in those colours may actually be not that easy to find.

It may depend on what clgwli asked them to find, and what they understood she wanted. Most dealers will expect people to ask about whites, rather than coloured, and their expectations may be coloured (!) by that fact.

Again - not trying to defend anyone, but just seeking to find an explanation for what is a rather curious behaviour. After all, if they intended to sell you a treated stone, they would know that the lab report would state it's treated. And I suspect that there are relatively few colour enhanced stones in "soft yellow". Generally neutrons create rather lurid effects!
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clgwli
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2010, 10:03:45 PM »

What's sad is that I was already a repeat customer with them.  Nothing over a couple hundred at a time, but still I used them a lot and was thinking of using them for a sterling ring I want made in the future.

I do know that a sales lady in the past told me they were looking to move, so maybe they do feel the push to make a sale more than they have in the past?  I don't know, but it's very disheartening when you thought you could trust  a jeweler.

OMC, I actually ran into what you are talking about at one of the stores.  I went in asking for low colored stones and said S-T or lower.  This one lady must not have heard me right because she showed me a J and asked if that was yellow enough.  When I said lower she asked about an L or M. 

This store though, we had a longer conversation about it and she even used the term "buttery yellow" on her own.  When another lady who was working was curious what we were talking about we got into a conversation about what color ranges and they even shoved a copy of the rapport sheet that only went to M aside while talking.  So I do know she got it and made a few notes that I saw.   She wrote down S-T+, honey, warm buttery yellow and something about fancy yellow.  I wish I could recall what she wrote but it was my "last choice" because I don't want something too bright. 

So you could be very right.  She might have had little luck and started looking higher and found some rounds in the L-P range.  Or maybe she got desperate and wanted to show me a brighter color than I wanted in a treated stone.

Eh, I don't know.  I suppose I could call and see what she wanted to offer, but I feel a little shady knowing a sale won't happen.  Depends on how much I wanted to have them restore some faith to me.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2010, 04:24:03 AM »

Ugh. What an unpleasant experience. Trust is such an important part of buying jewellery, because jewellery becomes so personal. I don't blame you for not wanting to go back.

If you are feeling a bit guilty about cutting them off though, it won't hurt to go and have a look at what she's offering, and talk a bit about it. You'd be able to get a more definite impression, and then you'd be in a better position to make a decision, one way or the other, and not have to feel guilty or sad about it, because you'll know you're doing the 'right' thing for you.
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clgwli
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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2010, 07:58:52 AM »

Good point Atlantys.  It might be worth it for me to call her to see what she wanted to offer me in a RB.  To restore some faith would be good I think. 

Of course something I admit I did not say, now that I am thinking about it, is that I wanted a natural colored stone.  I suppose half the blame could be on me since I knew what they were offering in some of the stones.

And for the record if someone wants an enhanced diamond (of any kind) I am not going to put them down.  I was almost drawn into buying an irridated blue I saw, but realized it wasn't really for me. 
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2010, 08:23:26 PM »

Just a little update.  I called the store and talked to one of the ladies "D" I spoke with a few weeks ago.  She tried to look up my name since they keep a file of things like this, and couldn't find anything.  The sales person "B" who had called me back yesterday was in but with a customer.  I heard "B" in the background (very unique voice and accent for this region).  I was told I'd get a call right back since "D" found nothing at all.  Not even the request slip that they filled out.

Yesterday's call to me was a voice mail so everything "B" told me about the what she found (or didn't find) was in a message.  I am not sure why my request wasn't still there unless she tossed it already. 

So unless she does call back I doubt I will ever know what she did want to show me, if anything at all.  I'm really doubting that she will ever call back since that about 8 hours ago.

Again I do appreciate this discussion.  While I know they weren't going to get a sale, this really does affect my choices for other purchases in the future.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2010, 12:48:58 AM »

IMO, wise decision to stay close to the CDI home(aka DBL).  I have strayed for significant bargains (70% off for my crescent moon and the lapis bracelet), but never for anything of true value or importance.  D and his crew are the best I've ever dealt with, and I sure don't have any reason to go elsewhere.  Why look for better than the best?, but that is the American way. Evil


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Auntie Dammit Heart DBL!
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2010, 07:53:38 PM »

I wonder if she was not able to find you anything once she actually started looking and had to back peddle.    Strange indeed.  The last time I was in AZ, not one store had anything lower than an L- and there was only 1 to view.  

Here there are only a couple high end stores that even carry coloured diamonds and few that are loose.  Most seem to be branded (Greg Ruth for example) items.  A few I have looked at were not well priced and I when I asked if they were natural I was advised that all yellow stones likely had some sort of enhancement.  scared Roll Eyes  This was a non-branded "custom" 20K+ ring, so I expected a more knowledgeable answer.

The same kind of thing happened while looking for my brown RB, I was assured they could find something.  It turned out that they couldn't.  Not eyeclean and not in the colour range and not within budget.  This became my first DBL purchase.
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clgwli
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2010, 05:50:38 PM »

IMO, wise decision to stay close to the CDI home(aka DBL).  I have strayed for significant bargains (70% off for my crescent moon and the lapis bracelet), but never for anything of true value or importance.  D and his crew are the best I've ever dealt with, and I sure don't have any reason to go elsewhere.  Why look for better than the best?, but that is the American way. Evil
Oh I am already cured of going elsewhere for anything other than my sterling items.  I just need to make sure my DH has the contact information for here so that he can get me any pretties he wants for a gift.  Well after he gets his promised new computer  Grin

Shiba, I wonder so much now about them now.  My husband joked and asked if I wanted to go in and say "well for a good jeweler it isn't too hard to find what you want".  I'm not quite that mean though.
 
I am shocked tohear that the store said that most were enhanced though.  That is very sad.  It bugs me too that the sales staff aren't more knowlegable than they are.  I swear many of them know less than I do.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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