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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2009, 05:03:48 AM »

In terms of natural, or man made irradiation, that's an interesting point.
Are they equivalent?


From what I'm looking at- admittedly a smaller sampling- the really dark colors in the blues and pink almost look black- not a lot of flashes of light.
The darker green still has some sparkle.

If we compare to natural ( non irradiated) brown diamonds- they can have very deep color, and still throw back a lot of flashes of light.


It might also have to do with what the diamonds look like before they were irradiated....

Qualitatively, yes - it's still neutrons and alpha particles (or possibly electrons and gamma rays). Quantitatively, no. The concentration of radiation is much higher in the man-made environment; a process that in nature would take many years has been shortened to a few days. I don't see why this should change things from an optical point of view, though, so I suspect it's the starting material rather than the process.

Actually - if most targets for irradiation are dark brown type II stones, it makes sense. The changes due to irradiation are skin deep, but the type II brown colouration is through the whole stone, since it's due to lattice distortions.

Having said that, I'm not a nuclear physicist or a solid state physicist, so...
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Mrs Mitchell
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2009, 09:01:40 AM »

Hmm. Well, my brother in law is a nuclear physicist - shall I ask him? He's visiting next month, so I'll see if he has any thoughts on it (hell, he has a view on everything else).
 Grin
Jen
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2009, 03:51:01 PM »

Why not? In fact, if you want to shut him up, ask him to work out a detailed explanation of the phenomenon, and leave him with the computer.  Grin
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2009, 04:09:28 PM »

I think we should handcuff him to the computer...hehehe

I did manage to get a better photo of one of the blue stones- this is the second from the end- not the lightest color, but next to ir..
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2009, 04:45:52 PM »

Hmm. Well, my brother in law is a nuclear physicist - shall I ask him? He's visiting next month, so I'll see if he has any thoughts on it (hell, he has a view on everything else).
 Grin
Jen
Amen, Miz M.  My FIL and one of my BIL are BOTH nuclear physicists - and they each have an opinion on EVERYTHING, too.  Just not necessarily the same one. Grin
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« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2009, 04:52:24 PM »

David,

Do they ever seem to get close to a 'normal' Fancy Blue like one of these?


* 2647_di_image_4c6f8.jpg (87.01 KB, 340x340 - viewed 83 times.)

* Ben_David fb p27.jpg (59.6 KB, 350x350 - viewed 78 times.)

* f lb p21.png (115.66 KB, 285x350 - viewed 85 times.)

* FB p34.png (9.59 KB, 50x73 - viewed 554 times.)
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« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2009, 04:57:37 PM »

No, the irradiated stones never really come close to the color of a natural blue...here's a vivid blue
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« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2009, 05:01:16 PM »

I love that heart.  I never was able to see how you set it, although I did find that lovely oval pale blue in a princess-Di sort of halo.  Good thing it's long gone.  It's probably  way out of our price range, but I can dream!  hypnodisk
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« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2009, 05:06:49 PM »

Amen, Miz M.  My FIL and one of my BIL are BOTH nuclear physicists - and they each have an opinion on EVERYTHING, too.  Just not necessarily the same one. Grin

AS Heisenberg would have said: "You can not know precisely at the same time the opinion and the person that holds it".
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Mikla
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« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2009, 06:46:06 PM »

No, the irradiated stones never really come close to the color of a natural blue...here's a vivid blue


I suppose this diamond would put you back, let's see . . . more than I'll make in my lifetime?   Grin
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« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2009, 07:23:53 PM »

Discounted to today probably yes (definitely yes in my case).
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Mrs Mitchell
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« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2009, 05:09:54 AM »

Why not? In fact, if you want to shut him up, ask him to work out a detailed explanation of the phenomenon, and leave him with the computer.  Grin

I'm sorely tempted. He'll be here in a few weeks and it might keep him occupied. For fun, I could wait until his third glass of wine. That's when we really start with the opinions! Wink

The irradiated blue is a really nice colour and I would like to see a close up of the lighter yellow from the first pic if you ever have time, David. It looks pretty too.

That blue heart is in a league of its own though! Stunning.

Oh, and I have an interesting mental image of jewel thieves with rapidly disintegrating fingers, Sparkly!

Jen
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« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2009, 11:22:44 AM »

You know, the first irradiated diamonds were made in the 1920s by packing the stones in radium salts for a few months. They turned nice bright green - only problem was that after a while so did the wearer...
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Trinkette
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« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2009, 02:39:24 PM »

 freakout blob1 freakout
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Cockneysparrow
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« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2009, 06:05:56 PM »

Good quality irradiated diamonds sparkle their heads off - just like any well cut diamond will.  Poor quality irradiated diamonds (or ones that are too dark) of course don't.  There's no difference between sparkle/fire in natural or irradiated.  The colouring process is entirely stable.  Irradiated diamonds do not fade.

My understanding is that irradiated green diamonds can't be differentiated by testing from natural green diamonds because the process used to irradiate mimics exactly what happens in real life to green diamonds.

Can you get red irradiated diamonds?  Yes but they're rare.  Most tend to look brown.  I've seen about 20 and only kept 2.

Here are some greens:





Here are my two reds:



Please excuse the fluff on the ring:
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Sparkly-OCD
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« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2009, 11:01:54 PM »

Wow, Cockneysparrow those are very intense colors; the saturation approaches a colored gemstone.  I favor the WG ring with the red RB set in the round halo with the split shoulders/top.  Thank you for sharing.   laugh
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2009, 04:55:32 AM »

Hi CS, we haven't seen you for a while. Welcome back!!!
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« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2009, 03:15:43 AM »

Ohh, I just love those flower settings CS!  The green especially catches my eye.

I was so interested to read about the green irradiation - I'd always wondered about that, as I knew that natural green is caused by radiation - very interesting post OMC.  The irradiated stones still look a little different (as with the blue example) - but is that as true for the green stones, as there is at least a 'nod' to the natural process that would have occurred to get a green colour in any case?  Would shortness/strength of the radiation burst impact on the colour saturation, or is that all down to the initial, most likely brownish, stone that is used?

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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2009, 09:30:11 AM »

Hi Rubymu, as far as I know the current process used to produce greens is substantially the same as the natural one, except for the duration. So much so that - as CS has pointed out above - it's relatively frequent to see "Undetermined" colour origin on lab reports for green diamonds.

Certainly for green irradiation duration/strenght would be relevant to colour tone (i.e. how deep the green is), since the green "skin" is so thin at times on natural diamonds that cutting has to be planned very carefully to avoid detrimental effects on overall colour. Saturation (i.e. how pure the green is) would - I think - depend on whether the undelying body colour of the stone is "white" rather than brown or yellow.
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« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2009, 10:55:15 AM »

Yes, it's lovely to see CS!!
Your rings are lovely.
I believe we can get the red irradiateds.

Good questions Ruby ( also great to see you!!)
The stones used for irradiation are brown to start out with.
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« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2009, 08:02:28 PM »

Hi David - great to see you - all of you - too. I've been busy and have only been visiting occasionally  Undecided

Very interesting, thanks OMC & David, this is all very fascinating. 
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« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2009, 09:54:50 PM »

Ruby - It's great to see you! hugging

CS - What a lovely collection!  I'm a complete sucker for flower rings, so I'm going to have to say that those two are my favorites.  Although, your second red ring is really close in the running!

Mrs M - I asked my DH (a nuclear engineer) something about fluorescence last week, and my only mistake was not having a stop watch on me.  He was very complete, as he always is, but I somehow always seem to walk away "learning" a lot more than I intended to.  I put learning in quotes because I generally forget the details in a matter of hours.   Roll Eyes  So, I think you should ask your nuclear physicist friend, but you should be sure to casually glance at the clock before hand so that you can see how long the lesson lasts.  Then come back and tell us how much you remember.   Wink
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« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2009, 01:15:20 PM »

LOL!

I actually saw him yesterday. I didn't have the strength to go there. We were getting a rant about something else.

Next time, I promise!

Jen
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« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2009, 01:40:19 PM »

I'm a sucker for green. That green pear up there looks yummy... Is it ripe?  Grin
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« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2009, 01:42:08 PM »

Yes, it's golden yellow at the bottom.  Wink
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