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Author Topic: Inclusion?  (Read 3658 times)
Shulamite
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« on: January 25, 2011, 04:12:02 PM »

Can someone please help me to identify an inclusion inside a stone which appears like a fingerprint on the right side of the stone? Thanks!


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DiamondsAreForever
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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2011, 05:48:53 PM »

Cloud?
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Shulamite
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2011, 06:58:24 PM »

Thank you so much for your fast response!
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Shulamite
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2011, 12:45:11 PM »

Extra facet how much does it matter?‎


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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2011, 01:50:05 PM »

How much does it matter in what respect?
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Shulamite
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2011, 02:32:30 PM »

How much does it matter in what respect?

How much does an extra facet affect the quality or the impact  on the grading of clarity since it already has cloud? Thanks!
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2011, 03:32:06 PM »

It depends on where the extra facet is located, and how large it is. The macro photo you posted is excellent quality, but does not give an idea as to scale. Given the position on the crown, it is probably minor in terms of any impact on cut quality, and clarity should not be impacted at all (in fact, often extra facets are cut because the cutter wants to eliminate an inclusion). The visual appearance may however suffer a little, since it is in a visible position and the stone may seem slightly asymmetrical to a careful observer. I assume it's a round sapphire BTW, given the pictures.

However, I think you should get the stone graded professionally - either by GIA (if your purpose is to have something that commercially helps you sell/value the stone) or by a competent appraiser (if you want to know all the ins-and-outs of your gem to satisfy your curiosity), rather than relying on advice that however well intentioned is based on two incomplete photographs and no understanding of your objectives and situation (are you buying? selling? exchanging? inheriting?)
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Shulamite
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2011, 12:30:38 PM »

Thank you so much for your time and your reply! To tell you the truth, I do not know which gem is the stone.  I was told that; it’s a natural blue diamond but I don’t believe that. It’s most likely a sapphire. I purchased it a while back online.
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2011, 04:07:31 PM »

Figuring out whether it's a diamond or a sapphire is relatively easy - any jeweller worth its name should be able to tell you.

Looking at the first photo, I cannot see any double refraction of  the edges, but the stone may have been cut along its optic axis precisely to make ID from a photo difficult. The facet edges could be either a not-very-carefully-cut diamond or a sapphire. At any rate a thermal conductivity test should easily distinguish between sapphire and diamond, and a refractometer will provide confirmation.

Natural vs. irradiated colour is tougher without proper instruments - but if it is a diamond I'd rule natural colour out in that tint. A diamond with that natural colour would be worth tens of thousands per carat as a small stone, and hundreds of thousands as a stone of 1 carat + (look at this one for comparison - and it ain't expensive: http://rockdiamond.c...n-old-mine-cut-r3512 ) - and it would always be accompanied by a GIA OR Gübelin report stating colour origin at the very least... which I assume your stone doesn't have.

What are you going to do with it, if I may ask? Regardless of what it is, it seems a pretty stone.
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Shulamite
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2011, 11:51:43 AM »

What are you going to do with it, if I may ask? Regardless of what it is, it seems a pretty stone.

 
It’s over 13mm in diameter… This is one of the reasons that the stone is not natural. I’ll keep it in my collection box.  However, I would like to send it to a lab in the future.
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saqsay1
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2011, 03:10:06 PM »

Oh by all means have it tested. Any diamond tester can tell you. at 13mm it must be a large size so give us more detail. where did you buy it an when... and if you don't mind... how much did you pay?
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Shulamite
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2011, 04:03:30 PM »

Oh by all means have it tested. Any diamond tester can tell you. at 13mm it must be a large size so give us more detail. where did you buy it an when... and if you don't mind... how much did you pay?


The price was no more than 700 USD. It’s mounted upon platinum 900. Last year, I purchased the ring online from the United States. Someone recommend me to place it under UV light to determine its fluorescence color.  When being held closer under the UV black light (20 watts), it emits hot pink. Though, it glows blue or white when taking it in a certain distance away from the black light.
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2011, 04:14:05 PM »

Sounds like a sapphire for sure.....
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2011, 04:20:25 PM »

The "hot pink" is most likely the violet visible component of the UV mixed with white (or white-ish). At $700, and considering the inclusions, it most probably a synthetic sapphire, particularly if the price included the setting. Given the price of platinum today, you probably have your money back anyway. Grin
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Shulamite
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« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2011, 07:22:21 PM »

The "hot pink" is most likely the violet visible component of the UV mixed with white (or white-ish). At $700, and considering the inclusions, it most probably a synthetic sapphire, particularly if the price included the setting. Given the price of platinum today, you probably have your money back anyway. Grin
[/i]

It does not appear that the hot-pink fluorescence happens because of “the violet visible component UV mixed with white.”  I believe it could be a synthetic stone that glows hot pink over the parcel of the stone.
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Shulamite
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« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2011, 09:22:23 PM »

Image of the stone under UV light.


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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2011, 04:06:14 AM »

It does look like red - I stand corrected. Which usually implies there is chromium, if it is a corundum. Yet the colour seems pure blue, if anything with a grey mask, but no purple or violet, which is what I would expect with chromium in the stone. Interesting. CZ - which is the other possibility I was considering - usually glows yellowish. At this point I'm intrigued, and would really like to know what it is.

ETA - unless... unless... do you know if the UV lamp you are using is Short or Long Wave? If it is (as I am now suspecting) LW, then the reddish glow is typical of some flux-grown corundum varieties. Then treat the stone with titanium diffusion, and voilà a nice pure blue comes out. Or it could be a synthetic spinel, which also fluoresces red under LW.
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DiamondsAreForever
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2011, 05:08:33 AM »

Wow, interesting.  Love the fluor.
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Shulamite
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2011, 08:08:00 AM »

It does look like red - I stand corrected. Which usually implies there is chromium, if it is a corundum. Yet the colour seems pure blue, if anything with a grey mask, but no purple or violet, which is what I would expect with chromium in the stone. Interesting. CZ - which is the other possibility I was considering - usually glows yellowish. At this point I'm intrigued, and would really like to know what it is.

ETA - unless... unless... do you know if the UV lamp you are using is Short or Long Wave? If it is (as I am now suspecting) LW, then the reddish glow is typical of some flux-grown corundum varieties. Then treat the stone with titanium diffusion, and voilà a nice pure blue comes out. Or it could be a synthetic spinel, which also fluoresces red under LW.

How do you clarify the pinpoints (cloud) and the extra facet since simulants are less likely to have these? It could be a natural sapphire. Anyway, I’ll keep it in my collection box. Thank you for this fantastic environment!
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2011, 08:24:00 AM »

Inclusions are present in synthetics as well as natural stones, to the point that really good synthetics also contain natural-looking inclusions, making ID difficult (except in some cases, inclusions are the main clues to origin). Cutting quality is a matter of time and expense; a synthetic crystal needs cutting as much as a natural one, but may not justify the time and expense to do a really good job - plus it may be a red herring (i.e. done on purpose).

I doubt it's a natural, untreated stone just because of the size and price. It's probably somewhere around 8-10 carats, and a just-about-decent quality natural sapphire of that size (never mind the excellent colour and clarity of your stone) would be several hundred $ per carat. A decent quality natural blue spinel over 5 ct would be even more, since it's considerably rarer.

And thank you for sharing the story and the photos - many others would have withdrawn in a huff. It is a nice looking stone regardless of what it is.
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Shulamite
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« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2011, 09:20:02 AM »

I hope you don’t mind me adding more pictures of the stone being held under UV black light. These images represent the stone in a distance away from the black light and facing way from the lamp. Is this a characteristic of synthetic stone? Yet, I’m in agreement with you that the price and the size do create a problem for the stone to be natural.


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Shulamite
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« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2011, 09:20:43 AM »

another


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Shulamite
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« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2011, 09:21:14 AM »

last one


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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2011, 09:51:18 AM »

I think what you are seeing there is reflection of the visible light from the UV lamp, rather than any fluorescence. Any stone would behave like that, unfortunately.

One quick test to tell whether it's a diamond or something else (but not what else) is to take a piece of paper, draw a dot (say 1 mm across) in a contrasting colour (red?) and put the stone on the dot, table down. A diamond will typically reflect an indistinct image; sapphire or spinel (or CZ) will show distinct reflections of the dot or a continuous  circle.
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