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Author Topic: colour irradiation question- pros/cons etc  (Read 782 times)
frea
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« on: June 02, 2008, 07:31:00 AM »

Irradiation, from what Ive read is pretty bad, but there are a few jewellers
(Im an aussie thus the double l's) who are avid devotees.

when I go on ebay there are heaps of "blue" and "pink" diamonds in the so called "vintage" bridal sets and they sell like hotcakes!!!!! (crazy people- the same shop lists the same style ring over and over on the same page with different stones and calls them vintage or antique --what the??)

does irradiation weaken the durability of the stone? why is a colour (again, aussie spelling hehehe) treated stone less desirable to the cool, genuine traders like dbl?

by the way, I dont think I could buy a diamond from another internet seller now after visiting (alot!) dbl!!!
 Kiss
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Trinkette
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008, 08:08:20 AM »

Hi frea, welcome to CDI! What a great question.  hello

I'm not the one to definitively answer you, but, as I'm sure you can imagine, completely natural diamonds, just like sapphires, are pricier than the heated stones.  It seems that Mother Nature commands a higher price than Man.  Wink  Like anything else, something that is rare often is more costly than something that is easily reproduced – simple supply and demand.  Obviously, irradated diamonds can be made available, whereas natural colored stones are catch as catch can.  Also, I have heard that untreated diamonds are more resistant to abrasion and the HPHT treatment, as I understand it, MAY make diamonds more brittle.

If you like the look of treated stones, pedigree is not important to you, and you don't plan on reselling, go for it.  Your rocks are for YOU to enjoy!  On the other hand, if you want to be assured of better durability and better value down the road, then, most likely, untreated diamonds are the way to go.

Let me flag this for David, I'm sure that he'll have something to add (and, goodness knows, he may want to correct me!).

 david

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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 08:23:12 AM »

Hi Frea,

Welcome to CDI!

As far as I know, irradiation has no effect on the durability of the stone, however some of the oldest irradiated stones had an impact on the durability of the wearer: the first method used was to pack the stones into radium salts. They turned a nice dark green and glowed in the dark; and so did you after a while. Currently, irradiated stones are as safe as non-irradiated ones.

In terms of desirability, you have answered your own question - aside from the "artificial" look, there are far fewer natural stones than irradiated ones.
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frea
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 08:36:17 AM »

yeah I know, thats crazy isnt it and dangerous!!!
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 09:44:09 AM »

Looks like you've already gotten most of the answer.
Here's a little more info:


when I go on ebay there are heaps of "blue" and "pink" diamonds in the so called "vintage" bridal sets and they sell like hotcakes!!!!! (crazy people- the same shop lists the same style ring over and over on the same page with different stones and calls them vintage or antique --what the??)


This part is more about eBay than treated stones- but the two are related.....
A lot of garbage is listed on eBay- I wonder how anyone could believe such drivel- but maybe some people do.
In terms of "selling like hotcakes ( anyone remember the old TV show "Green Acres"?)
Anyway in term of selling well, many of the sellers offering this crap use deceptive listing methods- such a s keeping bidder's identities private.
What this accomplishes is it allows them to make it look like things have sold, when in fact, they simply keep on re-listing the same garbage over and  over.
It's called the "Spaghetti Theory"- throw enough on the wall and some is bound to stick......


We would never carry treated diamonds- generally I'd think that any seller, or dealer who's committted to selling natural stones would not want to carry treated ones.....at least that's how we feel.....
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 06:38:04 PM »

While we're on the topic, here's some interesting info from the Government regarding radiated gems...

http://www.nrc.gov/r...es/1990/in90062.html
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Mikla
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 07:47:16 PM »

If they have to regulate it, it scares me a little . . .  xyxnervous

Mikla
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frea
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2008, 10:22:56 PM »

oh my GGGGOSH....there's some being imported illegally???

Thank gosh I have a source in Australia for semi gems and aussie sapphires, plus dbl for diamonds when Ive saved enough!! phew
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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2008, 07:18:53 AM »

Dear Frea -

I have heard that the Australian diamond mines produce many colored diamonds like pink, champagne, and cognac.  Isn't the Argyle Diamond Mine one of the world's biggest producer of natural diamonds?  How does that affect pricing of diamonds in Australia vs the pricing in the US?  I wonder what visiting a diamond mine would be like, if they'd even let you in there?

 woohoo  Mikla
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« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2008, 08:02:57 AM »

If they have to regulate it, it scares me a little . . .  xyxnervous

Mikla

No need to be scared Mikla.  Modern irradiated gems are safe from a health standpoint.  The Nuclear Regulatory Commission regulates pretty much everything to do with the industry.  The fact that there's regulation on it should make you feel safer. 

I'm a big proponent of the nuclear power industry, so I like to calm people's fears whenever possible!
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frea
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« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2008, 10:36:36 PM »

hey Mikla, Ive looked at the Argyle website- the foremost supplier of pink diamonds and they supply OVERSEAS mostly- high end retailers.. I spose the pricing when regarding this would be the same anywhere. I cannot see that the diamonds would be cheaper in Aus as the mine is here.. we don't have like dbl or a royal jeweller (forgotten who they are---princess di's ring) so most of it gets shipped overseas!!
Regarding argyle mine visiting- they have an employment program in the arid outback(!!) for young people like me but I dont think its a tourist destination like the sapphire/gem and gold mines- There is no retail end on site like a lot of the gem and gold mines.

I remember looking at the website a few months ago and being a bit disappointed- not may pretty pics to go gaga over...just the barren aussie outback and people wearing safety glasses with beakers full of brown water!!!! a long way from the glam end product!!

 Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2008, 07:04:10 AM »

If I remember right, a few years ago there was a warning put out about buying irradiated cats eye chrysoberyl and topaz from some eastern countries.  Apparently they were dangerous.  It always pays to be careful when buying abroad.
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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2008, 07:22:45 AM »

I found this on Argyle's website regarding the sale of their "more exceptional" pink diamonds:

Pink Tender

Beginning in 1984, the more exceptional polished pink diamonds from each year's production have been sold individually at special auctions known as "Tenders". Viewings have traditionally been held in New York, Tokyo, Perth, Antwerp, Hong Kong, London and Geneva. Participation in these events is by invitation to the worlds leading diamantaires and diamond jewellers.

The tendered pink diamonds have an average size of about 1 carat. Around 40 to 50 carats in total are sold at these auctions each year. Prices achieved are typically in excess of US$100,000 per carat.

To put the true rarity of these special "pink" diamonds into perspective, of every million carats of rough diamonds produced at the mine, a mere one carat is suitable for sale in one of these tenders. Since 1985, more than 750 stones have been offered for sale at the tender at a total weight of almost 600 carats.

 wow2 Mikla
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2008, 07:41:05 AM »

Interesting story about the largest irradiated diamond known from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On May 27th, 1971, Christie's auction house in Geneva offered to prospective buyers a cushion-cut, 104.52 carat (20.904 g) fancy golden-yellow diamond which would later come to be known as the Deepdene. This was mined in Premier Mines.

Its clarity was stated as VVS1 (with two very small imperfections near the girdle or midsection of the stone) and its vivid-yellow colour guaranteed to be natural by both the German gemmological institute and the University of Mainz.

However, Dr. Edward Gübelin, the founder of the reputable Gübelin Gem Lab in Lucerne, also of Switzerland, had the opportunity to inspect the diamond before the auction took place. Gübelin had a keen eye and experience with examining gems; he was adept at recognizing an artificially colored diamond. The Deepdene had been irradiated, likely by neutron bombardment. Gübelin warned Christie's and any buyers who would listen, but the sale was allowed to continue with the recommendation that it be examined by another lab.

After being sold to jewellers Van Cleef & Arpels for a reported £190,000, the Deepdene was sent to the Gem Testing Laboratory in London, England. The lab's director, gemmological pioneer Basil Anderson, was given the task of substantiating Gübelin's claims. That he did, using spectral analysis with damning results.

Van Cleef & Arpels promptly returned the unfortunate stone for a refund, leaving it somewhat of an unwanted orphan. Its current whereabouts remain uncertain.

The Deepdene gets its name from the Pennsylvania estate of Mrs. Bok, wife of Cary W. Bok, both the diamond's original owners. At the time, the Deepdene weighed slightly more at 104.88 carats (20.976 g) and was mounted in a diamond clip. Harry Winston bought the diamond from the Boks in 1954 and it eventually found its way to a London firm in 1960 and later to its German owner. Assuming Winston did not have the irradiation treatment done, it could have taken place any time between 1955 (when Winston sold it) to 1971, the year it was offered at auction. In any event, the Deepdene is widely considered to be the largest irradiated diamond in the world.

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« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2008, 08:23:59 AM »

Why would anyone irradiate something so rare and huge!?  Insane!  What a shame.   Undecided
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« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2008, 08:29:07 AM »

Mikla, I've never heard that story.  Thanks.
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« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2008, 09:22:58 AM »

Interesting...unless things have changed...they all look a little neon or off a little..
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« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2008, 09:59:00 AM »

GIAGirl, sorry, I'm more dense than usual this morning.  Do you mean all irradated diamonds look neon or off color?
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« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2008, 10:00:43 AM »

Yes...the irradiated ones just don't fool me.  Now, I have not seen too many of them...but they just don't do it for me...now...let me say that I have seen some red ones that were fun for neat bands and things...but I would still rather have a natural red band...HA! 
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« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2008, 10:09:59 AM »

Yes, I'm waiting patiently for my natural red diamond to appear in my Christmas stocking someday...  Whistle
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« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2008, 10:32:45 AM »

I think the color looks unnatural and sort of surreal. The blues especially. Those are just weird. But to each his own.
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« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2008, 02:34:17 PM »

Well, looks like I'm going to be the lone voice here!

I've got both natural and irradiated coloured diamonds.  A good irradiated diamond can be difficult to tell apart from a natural one. 

Obviously there are degrees of good and bad irradiated diamonds!  The ones on Ebay are definitely in the generally "bad" category and are usually very low in clarity.  Some companies that irradiate diamonds will only irradiate an SI1 or above and that definitely makes a difference.

I have irradiated yellows, pinks, blues, red, green, purples.  The yellows and greens are the ones that are the most difficult to detect whether they're irradiated or not by eye alone.  The blues are a bit obvious.  Red - well that stands to reason that they're probably not going to be natural  Grin  The purples can be also be confused with naturals.

At the end of the day, they're still diamonds, very pretty and sparkly!  So, I'm afraid I will still buy natural and irradiated!

Puts head down and runs for the hills .................. 
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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2008, 02:49:16 PM »

CS, - come back, come back!! lol

ALL of the sparkly obsessed are welcome, you know that!  Everyone has their own tastes, and thank goodness for that! 

Frankly, I considered myself sort of a color treatment snob until a few weeks ago, when a good friend of mine got an irradiated yellow. It is absolutely gorgeous;
I have to say I would NEVER guess if I didn't know it. It's a lovely lemon yellow; not too intense, not over the top at all.

I now have concluded I haven't seen enough "well done" color treated stones to make the judgement. I'm thinking eBay is not a fair testing field, and that is actually all I've seen.  And of course those are not even in person.

I want to see pictures of yours, CS!! I'm open minded!  Show us your stuff!!
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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2008, 03:21:33 PM »

IHADP!   Grin

Happy to oblige ...................  ok some of my yellows ..........  Which ones are natural, which ones irradiated?

1.


2.


3.


Same ring different shot!


4.  (sorry not a good picture)


5.  (ignore the ring as it's the same as number 1 above)


6.


7.


8.


For obvious reasons I haven't included my purchases from DBL!

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« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2008, 03:30:56 PM »

Oh man. This is tough! You have some lovely pieces, CS!!

The only one I immediately thought was probably treated was # 5, the chubby pear. The others, I'd have to see more pics of and still probably wouldn't be sure at all.

I'll guess #3 is treated too, but only b/c I know most rectangles end up as radiants, according to David, to maximize the color return - thus why we don't see many yellow ECs.

That pentagon #8 is COOL!  Are you going to set it? How if so?
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