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Author Topic: Old Mine Cut vs Chunky Cushion  (Read 2758 times)
Jennilee
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« on: January 07, 2011, 09:11:44 PM »

Hi everyone,

I have been searching for an OEC or OMC diamond for a few months. I recently came across the DBL web site and found a chunky cushion. Does anyone have photos or drawings that show the cut differences between and OMC and a chunky cushion? I know the chunky cushion doesn't have the culet like the OMC, but other than that what are the differences?

The reason I like the OEC and OMC are the large flashes of light. I really don't care for the crushed ice look to the newer cut diamonds. Do the chunky cut cushions look kind of like OMC's or not at all?

I seriously fell in love with the look of this diamond:
www.rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/halo-diamond-ring-305-antique-looking-cushion--is-it-purple-platinum and really it is the only reason I "might" consider a chunky cushion. Do all chunky cushions look like this? Or is this an unusual cut?

Thanks for your help.





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DiamondsAreForever
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2011, 09:15:01 AM »

Welcome to CDI, Jennilee!

To answer your question, not all chunky cushion diamonds are cut this way.  If you read the item description of Lishkare's ring (he's the gentleman who purchased that stunner of a ring for his wife), it's stated that the diamond is a Daussi.  Henri Daussi is a European diamond cutting  / jewelry design house renowned for their jewelry design.  David often carries their rings and they don't disappoint!  The diamonds are not your run-of-the-mill cuts, which makes them eye catching.  If you have any questions regarding the Daussi or any other diamond you may be interested in, don't hesitate to ask here or call David directly.  He's a gem of a person and the shopping experience is second to none.   
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DiamondsAreForever
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2011, 09:18:42 AM »

Jennilee, check out this thread to see more pics of that fab ring.

http://coloreddiamon...18160/?boardseen#new
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Jennilee
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2011, 09:49:57 AM »

Gosh, I had no idea what a Daussi was...I thought it was the setting style or the maker of the ring. So thank you for letting me know about that.  Smiley

That ring is soooo beautiful! Seriously I would have snatched it up in a heartbeat and I wonder why it was priced as low as it was? It seems like it was one of the least expensive diamonds I have seen, ever...maybe I am shopping on the wrong web sites....lol.  Wink

Plus, I know it was a lower color...BUT I love, love, LOVE those lower colors. It's kind of like an ivory look that I like...not the icy white. Of course I've been looking at antique cut diamonds, so to speak, so I think the lower colors look good in them. I think my favorites are the JKLM's. I've seen a couple of OP's but I am not sure if that is to yellow for me. I want it ivory, but not obviosuly yellow if that makes sense. That being said, I was eyeing an OP diamond here at DBL--I can't decide if it was too much color for me or not.

As you can see I am pretty new to all of this diamond stuff. I think I have finally figured out clarity and color and some cuts of diamonds,. but there is so much more to learn.

You know what I would love to ask, to those of you who know? I've always purchased a smaller diamond with better clarity VVS1-2 or VS1.Now I am looking at buying a larger diamond and I am going to have to drop the clarity a bit to get the size I want at a price within my budget. So it seems to me, and please correct me if I am wrong here...the diamonds that have the cuts that are kind of see through, like an emerald cut, or like the Daussi, does the clarity have to be better in those? It seems like a round brilliant would mask some of the inclusions becuase there are more facets reflecting insde the diamond. Of course I know, if it is a big old black inclusion the RB will refelct that inclusion all over the inside of the diaomnd where a emerald or Daussi might not. Does this make sense at all?

Thanks for your help.
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clgwli
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2011, 09:53:48 AM »

I am a huge fan of older cuts.  Though oddly I like the crushed ice too, but I spend a lot of time looking at vintage cuts.

If you like the large flashes of light you would probably be a fan of Daussi cuts.  I really am a big fan of them as they do remind me of the OMC of old.

Check out this one though http://rockdiamond.c...-new-old-cut-r3704-2

It's a new cut made to look like the old mine cuts.  It really looks fantastic.

The problem with vintage cuts for me at least, is that it is hard to find a really beautiful one.  Many are lower in clarity as well as lower in color than many like.  I really love vintage stones but soemtiems finding a beauty is like finding a needle in a haystack.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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clgwli
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2011, 09:57:41 AM »

You posted while I did.  I also forgot this link
http://rockdiamond.c...diamonds-and-jewelry

That's a bunch of Daussi diamonds.  Since you love the lower color you might find a lot in the Daussi section that you will enjoy!

As for the clarity, it won't be straight forward to answer.  I actually think that a VS2 or an SI1 is a great value.  It all depends on where and what the inclusion is.  You can actually have an eye clean I1! I personally would look at all stones initially and see what kind of inclusion you are looking at.  And then judge each individually.  

In reality VVS1-VS1 can be a bit over kill.  These are inclusions that can be hard to see with magnification at times let alone with your eye.  I wouldn't turn down the right stone with a VVS1 clarity, but I don't personally see the need for it on most stones when VS2-SI2 can be just fine.
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2011, 10:20:22 AM »

With an EC diamond, an SI graded diamond CAN be eye clean, if the flaws are strategically placed, for instance, in the corner of the step, where the facets reflect off of one another, or, in the step itself.  Or, you can have a bunch of minute flaws that total up to SI.  The clarity grade is for the amount of inclusion, if it's spread out, it can be eye clean.
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lishkare
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2011, 09:26:12 PM »

Hi Jennilee, great questions!  I had bought 2823 for my wife for our 10th wedding anniversary, and she loves it.  For us, the light has shone (literally!).  We have found our sweet spot in color and clarity.  If you love the slightly ivory colored stones (which we love), go in for a L colore, eye clean SI1 clarity, with medium to strong blue Fluorescence.  The L  SI1 gives you a great price, and the blue fluorescence masks the color in most lights.  I have found the color only shows in yellow incandescent lighting, and all other lights, the stone appears nice and white.  You will see that in the photos of our 2823.  This combination or competitive price and desirable attributes also allows you to go up in size, which is a priority for us.  Hope that helps!  Lishkare       
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Jennilee
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2011, 09:24:30 AM »

Thanks for your help everyone. The SI stones look to be a great value although I've been a little afraid of them. I think the thing is is that every diamond has to be looked at and when shopping online that just isn't possible. I do love that DBL has videos though...that surely helps.  Smiley

Lishkare, that is such a beauuuuutiful ring! And I just love the way you presented it to her. It was very thoughtful!

I also have a sweet spot for the ivory colored stones. I gotta admit that my husband wanted to upgrade my e-ring for years. So every year on our anniversary we would go take a look and I never liked anything well enough to actually upgrade. So last year was our 25th anniversary and my husband really wanted to buy me the ring of my dreams. So, once again, we went to all of the local diamond sellers and I just didn't see anything I liked at all--we even went to Tiffany's--nothing there interested me either....sigh. Finally the owner of one store said "Is it possible you don't want to upgrade because your ring is sentimental to you". And I said "No, that isn't it, because I can wear the ring as a right hand ring. I just don't like that icy white, crushed ice look of the larger diamonds". That's when he introduced me to vintage and antique rings...he had a huge catalog of them , but it was a bit outdated as most of them were already sold. But that look is exactly what I wanted. I love the big chunky flashes of light...much like the ring you purchased for your wife, Lishkare.  It really is the perfect ring! Smiley
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Jennilee
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2011, 09:29:28 AM »

Hey, I forgot to ask: Does anyone know anything about Rose Cut diamonds? I've seen one that looked kind of interesting but in reading about them in the internet I heard they don't sparkle as much. That being said, I am thinking that Emerald cut diamonds don't sparkle that much but they are still really beautiful. I wonder if Rose cut diamonds sparkle in the same kind of way an emerald cut does?

Also, I saw Daussi cushion in the size I like but it is listed as an O/P. I "kind" of know what an O/P looks like, but I am afraid it will be way to yellow. But I've seen some that are more ivory than yellow. Does anyone have photos of their O/P diamond? Or know where I can find some? I know all of them are going to look different, but I am sure they will all somewhat look the same too if that makes sense. Wink

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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2011, 09:40:14 AM »

Rose cuts look (and sparkle) in a completely different way from anything else. They don't look like step cuts at all, nor do they look like modern brilliant cuts. The closest look I can think of to a single rose cut is an (old) single cut brilliant. Bear in mind that virtually no light entering a rose cut is reflected back from the "bottom" (table) of the stone, given the bottom is flat. A rose cut depends purely on reflecting back light that hits the facets. Double roses (no table, but with the "pavillion" cut like the crown) can look stunning, but are rare!

For O/P - search the forum for "opie, nopie, -copie"
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Jennilee
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2011, 09:54:01 AM »

Rose cuts look (and sparkle) in a completely different way from anything else. They don't look like step cuts at all, nor do they look like modern brilliant cuts. The closest look I can think of to a single rose cut is an (old) single cut brilliant. Bear in mind that virtually no light entering a rose cut is reflected back from the "bottom" (table) of the stone, given the bottom is flat. A rose cut depends purely on reflecting back light that hits the facets. Double roses (no table, but with the "pavillion" cut like the crown) can look stunning, but are rare!

For O/P - search the forum for "opie, nopie, -copie"

Thanks for the info OldManCoyote. You know what is funny, is that I had never even heard of a rose cut until a few months ago. My Mom loves colored stone jewelry so we were out shopping one day and I bought a costume jewelry ring to wear. It's got a clear stone and my Mom said it was a rose cut. I love that ring. Of course a clear stone non diamond is going to look totally different from a real diamond, but I do love the cut...just need to see a rose cut diamond in real life.

Oh gosh! Is that the secret to searching for a OP on the forum? I was driving myself nusto searching for OP and it was pulling up everything....lol. Thank you! I wonder if you tube has any videos of rose cuts? I hate to rule them out, but finding one near me to look at is like finding a needle in a haystack.  Wink
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oldmancoyote
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2011, 12:10:54 PM »

Bear in mind that "Opie" and "Nopie" are the names of two people's O-P graded diamonds, not necessarily the only ones, and not necessarily the only (or even the best) way of looking for an O-P. But I was sure there were pictures of these. Wink

Also - search http://diamondsbylau...db/diamond_list.html for "O-P" - David has 6 in stock, in different cuts and shapes.

Finally - bear in mind that the typical (single) rose cut setting has a reflective bottom in the setting, which kind of makes my statement about "non-reflection" a bit of a nonsense, until the metal used for the reflective setting becomes dull or dirty (which has happened a long time ago with a typical rose diamond, set in silver in the 18th century)
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clgwli
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2011, 03:20:35 PM »

Rose cuts look (and sparkle) in a completely different way from anything else. They don't look like step cuts at all, nor do they look like modern brilliant cuts. The closest look I can think of to a single rose cut is an (old) single cut brilliant. Bear in mind that virtually no light entering a rose cut is reflected back from the "bottom" (table) of the stone, given the bottom is flat. A rose cut depends purely on reflecting back light that hits the facets. Double roses (no table, but with the "pavillion" cut like the crown) can look stunning, but are rare!

For O/P - search the forum for "opie, nopie, -copie"
I have to say that I think a rose cut is even less sparkly and bright than a single cut.  I had some single cuts set into a ring and I so loved them!  Rose cuts really are cool, but I prefer the style in a more opaque stone or a very colored stone.

Don't get me wrong rose cuts are cool, but they are not what I find to be a favorite of mine for large stones.  I think they are really neat looking when done with very small side stones or the like.

I am relatively color sensitive but I still think of O-P as more of the "ivory" color.  Maybe from the side they look more yellowish, but somewhere around the S-T range is the range where I think a stone has a tendency to look yellow all the time.

For me ivory ranges are about K-P.  At least what I consider.  Sometimes O-Ps can look very bright and "light"  depending on the cut.

This is one Daussi I love.  It has a brownish tint, but OMG heaven http://rockdiamond.c...d-lovely-color-r3623

Is this the O-P one you were talking about? http://rockdiamond.c...dainty-setting-r3150

That one looks faintly yellow but more ivory to me.  You could always ask David for more photos in all kinds of lighting to see what you think.  That is a really nice Daussi stone though.  I love the cut on it!
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Elaine aka Squiggly
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2011, 03:27:45 PM »

Remember that colour in the D-Z range is assessed side on. An O-P round will look - side on - the same as a cushion or a princess cut.

However face up the story is different: among brilliant cuts rounds tend to show their colour least (when seen from above), and other shapes tend to show their colour more - radiants most of all. My guess - but it is a guess - is that a Daussi cushion will look relatively quite a bit whiter seen from above than a radiant of the same colour.

Blue fluorescence will also have an effect, making the stone look whiter - but only in natural sunlight.
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Jennilee
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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2011, 04:14:05 PM »

Thanks for the info everyone.  Smiley

It's good to know that someone here thinks ivory is down to P because both of the diamonds I have found recently are O/P. I was really thinking I had to stay in the JKLM range to not look yellow. Although I do recognize that yellow is in the eye of the beholder and depends on each diamond.

The one I saw on DBL was larger than those you posted, clgwli. I can't remember the exact carat weight but it was 3.30-ish or so.

Okay, oldmancoyote, so between an O/P old European cut and a Daussi cushion, both with no florescence, which one do you think will show the least color? And I am talking about larger stones here, like 3.00-4.5 carats.

Does color...now forgive me because I am new to diamond education...but I know color has nothing to do with clarity BUT can clarity affect the perceived color because the diamond may not reflect as much light? I hope that makes sense. Again we are talking about larger diamonds here as it seems to me color might be more noticeable when the carat size increases...or is that totally wrong?
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DiamondsAreForever
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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2011, 07:13:30 PM »

There would have to be some pretty big boogers in the diamond to affect light dispersion.
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Diamondsbylauren
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2011, 07:43:44 PM »

Greetings all!
Jennilee- Welcome to the forum!!
You're gotten some great info so far.
In terms of stones showing color- I do disagree a bit with the statement that radiant shows more color than cushion, as a rule.
For example- comparing a Radiant to a Daussi: It's really a stone by stone thing.
Some Daussi cushions show a lot more color than others- so some will show color in a similar manner to a Radiant of the same shade. OMC is correct in many cases- but not all.

Rose Cuts: I'll admit, in general, they are not on my "favorite" list.
I don't find them to have the sparkle I'm looking for in a diamond.
I may be able to get one in for a video sometime this week

In the O-P range, there's going to be a lot of discrepancy from stone to stone.
Truth be told, it's just so hard to grade these colors- that you find a lot of differences from stone to stone- be it in an Old Mine cut, or a Daussi.
Plus, these stones are hard to find in larger sizes- such a 3.50-4ct

DAF is correct- it would have to be quite an imperfect stone for the shmootz ( technical term sultan) to interfere with light return in a meaningful manner.
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Jennilee
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« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2011, 05:32:05 PM »

Sorry for the delay in responding to your David...it's been a crazy few days...

Yes! I would love to see a video if you have the time to post one, I'd super appreciate it.

I dont; know, I am just hinking the OP may be too yellow for me. I mean, I see ones that I like but they are all so different. I am afraid I will buy it and then be really dissappointed once I see it.  Sad
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Trinkette
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« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2011, 05:41:22 PM »

I'm on my way out the door and just saw this (scanned the thread, haven't actually read the details yet, sorry)! FWIW, I am one of the people with an O-P. R2449. Beautiful stone. Also I have diamond color-neighbors I, J, K, and L. Hummm, guess I need an M...  Roll Eyes

Welcome to the forum Jennilee. I'll be back to torture you more later.  Evil
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